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1.701 Cannon dread Analysis |
-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
|  Posted: 2013-10-24 22:05
Tier 1 cannon dread is to attack cruisers as we all know.
I think instead of testing a krill in combat vs a CD or BD, you need to evaluate its ability to perform its roll compared to the other T1 cannon dreads.
In my game kluth side experience, the krill does a poor job at fighting off cruisers, as they can simply dodge the SIs. But if the SIs DO hit...its a painful experience.
Cruisers(from my kluth side experience) do not seem to be all that threatened by the krill.
Where on the other hand, I have difficulty attacking a CD or BD(or any dread with cannons really) in say, my scythe or scarab.
Currently, I use my 21% range/31% wep damage krill to counter stations from a distance....but is usually my last choice to counter cruisers. I think its safe to say that the krill is different than its hooman T1 counterparts in its function. Of course, the devs may want it to function different than how it performs now
Not only is it kluth's only real long range effective tool ATM, The krill has always had a spot in the heart of many K'luth players. Don't nerf it too hard this time around 
[ This Message was edited by: -xTc-.ExisTence *XO* on 2013-10-24 22:09 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2013-10-24 22:34
I personally would favor spreading out it's arcs as the Krill could still potentially negate its falloff, though to be honest, right now its very high and it STILL hurts.
Alternatively, I also liked the idea of replacing some of those SI's with heavy cannons in order to reduce the overall volley damage. It would also allow the Krill to have some modding options for its cannons at least (ICC and UGTO get them for their cannon dread variants).
[ This Message was edited by: Ent on 2013-10-24 22:34 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-10-24 22:51
Not a bad idea to give it more arcs too. That way the volley damage is reduced, but the ship becomes more flexible in terms of use.
Right now, a Krill pilot has to point his nose at the enemy and go slow to avoid closing in too soon. He will have to eventually turn away and expose himself without being able to fire back... or slow down and allow himself to be more easily hit by incoming fire.
More broadside ability is a good tradeoff.
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iwancoppa2
Ensign
Joined: October 23, 2013
Posts: 12
| Posted: 2013-10-25 00:39
Well, judging by collective responses in this thread, I think we can reach a fair compromise. Basic outline below.
Remove 2-3 SIs
Add cannons to compensate for SI loss
Change arcs to allow more flexible firing with slightly less concentrated forward firepower
re-evaluate need for SI falloff nerf
???
Balance!
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-10-25 02:12
LOL. I wonder what the QQ would be for a T1 all-Neutronium Torpedoe dread.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-10-25 04:36
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 02:12, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
LOL. I wonder what the QQ would be for a T1 all-Neutronium Torpedoe dread.
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Another well-reasoned article like this one proving overpoweredness.
xD
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[-clamup1995-]
Marshal
Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 125
From: Colony Hub, Sag Hothha
| Posted: 2013-10-25 10:26
I believe the Krill is fine how it is and I use +48% weapon damage. Like xTc said it is very easy to dodge SIs and avoid any damage from the Krill in a smaller ship. Yes, it does hurt when you get hit though. The Krill's armor is already weak as it is and I believe if you nerf it again it may not be used. K'luth players use it now because it is actually useful. It can be helpful against dreads and stations as a support role dreadnought. If you're alone in a Krill and fighting 2 or 3 cruisers? You will lose every time you fight them in a Krill. Falloff may be fine, but don't remove any weapons.
1-3 Krills fighting cruisers may work if you single fire each SI by assigning numbers. If you want to counter cruisers you pull out a destroyer or even a cruiser. In my opinion having an anti-cruiser dreadnought is quite silly considering the sluggish speed and turning radius.
[ This Message was edited by: clamup *XO3* on 2013-10-25 11:14 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-10-25 11:45
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 10:26, clamup *XO3* wrote:
Like xTc said it is very easy to dodge SIs and avoid any damage from the Krill in a smaller ship.
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"projectileVelocity": "switch (LEVEL) { case 10: 165.0 deault: 550.0 - (LEVEL * 55.0) }"
Krill is level 7, so its SI speed is 550-7*55=165gu/s
This is quicker than the old SI.
Yet not fast enough?
Ion Cannon is 450-7*45=135gu.
I don't see Positron Cannon information on status. But Positron is slower than heavy particle so it should be 160gu/s or less.
Still, SI is very easy to dodge, isn't it?
I guess Jim can decrease the subtrahend and add tracking feature to core cannon (like MI torpedo) without hestitation of making core cannon OP.
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iwancoppa2
Ensign
Joined: October 23, 2013
Posts: 12
| Posted: 2013-10-25 17:32
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 10:26, clamup *XO3* wrote:
I believe the Krill is fine how it is and I use +48% weapon damage. Like xTc said it is very easy to dodge SIs and avoid any damage from the Krill in a smaller ship. Yes, it does hurt when you get hit though. The Krill's armor is already weak as it is and I believe if you nerf it again it may not be used. K'luth players use it now because it is actually useful. It can be helpful against dreads and stations as a support role dreadnought. If you're alone in a Krill and fighting 2 or 3 cruisers? You will lose every time you fight them in a Krill. Falloff may be fine, but don't remove any weapons.
1-3 Krills fighting cruisers may work if you single fire each SI by assigning numbers. If you want to counter cruisers you pull out a destroyer or even a cruiser. In my opinion having an anti-cruiser dreadnought is quite silly considering the sluggish speed and turning radius.
[ This Message was edited by: iwancoppa2 on 2013-10-25 17:33 ]
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If it can not hit cruisers effectively, that's an issue with core cannons, not the krill. You also won't be able to beat 2 cruisers teaming on you. As diepluc said, the SI has some of the highest velocity of all the core cannons.
The 48% Damage krill is precisely one of the reasons that I did all of this.
The armor may be weaker but my third set of statistical adjustment proved that it is not weak enough to balance out the much higher damage.
The krill is ranked at 2nd Rear Admiral. It's alright if higher ranking players don't always use it as their go-to, lower ranked players can benefit from owning a dread.
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Scorched Soul[+R]
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 378
From: USA, NJ, Princeton
| Posted: 2013-10-25 17:40
well if the issue is that you can beef it up to do too much damage then dont forget the incoming enhancement % caps
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-10-25 19:16
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 17:40, Scorched Soul[+R] wrote:
well if the issue is that you can beef it up to do too much damage then dont forget the incoming enhancement % caps
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True.
Even without enhancements, it's still in a different ballpark of damage.
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[-clamup1995-]
Marshal
Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 125
From: Colony Hub, Sag Hothha
| Posted: 2013-10-25 19:55
K'luth has always been about damage. That is what the faction is known for.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-10-25 20:10
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 19:55, clamup *XO3* wrote:
K'luth has always been about damage. That is what the faction is known for.
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Generally not 2-3x more damage after health is factored in.
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Scorched Soul[+R]
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 378
From: USA, NJ, Princeton
| Posted: 2013-10-25 22:46
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 20:10, iwancoppa wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 19:55, clamup *XO3* wrote:
K'luth has always been about damage. That is what the faction is known for.
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Generally not 2-3x more damage after health is factored in.
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but do the analogous dreads for humans have 2-3x more health?
[ This Message was edited by: Scorched Soul[+R] on 2013-10-25 22:47 ]
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-10-25 23:10
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 22:46, Scorched Soul[+R] wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 20:10, iwancoppa wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-25 19:55, clamup *XO3* wrote:
K'luth has always been about damage. That is what the faction is known for.
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Generally not 2-3x more damage after health is factored in.
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but do the analogous dreads for humans have 2-3x more health?
[ This Message was edited by: Scorched Soul[+R] on 2013-10-25 22:47 ]
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As stated in the results...
K'luth armor is ~120k, ICC shields ~140k, UGTO armor ~170k.
The third set of statistics factors in these figures.
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