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UGTO AI & Kluth AI |
Rykros1987
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 01, 2012
Posts: 88
From: Not in an asylum. Yet.
|  Posted: 2014-01-13 10:16
I assume the ai works like this:
1. faction builds sy planets and mining planets.
2. Mining planets supply sy's when ports are set correctly and sy's build ai when it has the resources resulting in populated ai sectors.
3. Someone sends out a distress signal and if theres available ai that isnt busy + the person being outnumbered server wise then the ai sets course for and aids the distressing ship/ai ship/planet.
Now can you see from this example where the problem could be?
Check your planets.
Sometimes having too many fortresses built solely to resist being taken or too few mining planets and sy's can really truly hinder a systems ai. If you havnt noticed the ai tends to not be good architects....try improving your systems and maybe just maybe....you might see more ai. 
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Tacheyon
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 5
| Posted: 2014-01-13 15:01
You're assuming things when we are arguing that those assumptions are already wrong. People have been outnumbered and still rushed with AI. Whole systems taken over simply because a planet with a SY is taken and a transport rush happens that no number of people could stop let alone one.
Something is off balance with the AI, the pirate's insane amount of transports and other quirks prove there are bugs to work out but I for one wanted to simply to state that there was a problem and see if I wasn't the only one seeing or not seeing what was suppose to be happening.
[ This Message was edited by: Tacheyon on 2014-01-13 16:56 ]
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Boerenkool
Marshal
Joined: December 18, 2007
Posts: 218
| Posted: 2014-01-14 02:20
pirate and MI dont come from shipyard planets
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Tacheyon
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 5
| Posted: 2014-01-14 15:51
Never said they did. The first paragraph was about the player faction AI, the second was expanding the point to include the non player AI.
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Botoru
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 25, 2011
Posts: 84
From: England
| Posted: 2014-01-19 06:29
I was in Cephid Prime, the rank locked sector capping a planet (y, i dont know). Then ICC AI came to defend (there was no player resistance). First came frigates, then dessies and cruisers. I was fine with that until when an ICC sector command base came. Now I'm pretty sure in that sector you can't undock a ship higher than captain (or sth) so how did that happen?
Oh yeah and i was alone in an engi.
...wait i think i'd already capped it, yeah
[ This Message was edited by: Admiral Sideswipe {Elite Firebolt} on 2014-01-19 06:33 ]
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2014-01-19 07:01
i think we should just go back to the old spawning system. the new system can be fixed later, and i'd rather fight a horde of T3 destroyer ai instead of a horde of T1 dreads.
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Botoru
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 25, 2011
Posts: 84
From: England
| Posted: 2014-01-19 08:07
Quote:
On 2014-01-19 07:01, Forger of Destiny wrote:
i think we should just go back to the old spawning system. the new system can be fixed later, and i'd rather fight a horde of T3 destroyer ai instead of a horde of T1 dreads.
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it might be easier for lower ranked players to gain pres too? after all, many players are too high ranked for them and the ai could be easier to kill?
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2014-01-19 09:18
I suggest disable AI alarm. They do spam yellow. And their distresses only distract themselves since they call for support at different places!
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Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2014-01-19 13:17
Quote:
On 2013-12-07 13:52, Tacheyon wrote:
Okay so I've finally seen AI in game today other then just transports. I got swarmed by Kluth AI, 3 dessie, 1 Crusier, 2 Dread and a Hive. There were only two UGTO players that I was aware of. And did check to see who was around after that swarm of AI. How is that an appropriate response to a UGTO Dread and Dessie?
And I have never, not once seen any UTGO AI since the new patch was out, and I have been the only UGTO on the server. I frankly don't believe they spawn at all other then transports. But I can't say this for sure without proof, so if anyone can show me some recent screenshots of UGTO AI it would be appreicated.
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Also, the AI may or may not spawn right where you need them at any given moment. For instance, I was once fighting outnumbered, and outranked in Andosia. There were indeed AI that spawned. However, these AI spawned in the dres kona system far away from me and, seemed to be, gradually working there way toward me.
-Sheraton
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2014-01-19 15:49
It is hard to know what would be the best solution for how the ai should behave and their place in the 1.703 metaverse.
Here are some ideas:
Every home system should have a greater number of ai than the ai available in a Faction occupied System further out from the Home sector.
This ai acts as a drone defensive force and makes taking the home sector/server of each faction a special challenge. These could move in waypoints patrolling the Homeworld, Faction Homegates and main server transfer gate in order or at random.
Numbers of Ai Drone warships:
Low: 5
I suggest a triple section of 3 ships of the same type and class flying together. 1 Elite should be available also which flies alone. After the elites destruction there is a delay of a number of minutes before it is respawned again from the homegate. The smaller ships respawn 1 minute after their destruction and attempt to rejoin their section.
1 supply ship should be available in the Home system at all times.
or
High: 10
In the home system only there could be a defensive Fleet. composed of:
These ships fly in unison as one unit - when moving all ships 'g' shadow the Dread when one is engaged in combat they all break off and engage the enemy as usual.
1 Elite dread - random type
2 Cruisers - random type
2 Destroyers - random type
3 Frigates - random type
They fly waypoints as described above, they engage anyone within sensor range of any recon plat sector/serverwide. The Dread's destruction leads to the 'break up' of the fleet where they fly random patterns responding to the appropriate orders, if any (see below) or defaulting to respond to the standard distress calls they may recieve
1 scout - random type - flies freely
1 supply - In the homesystem there should also be an ai supply that responds to resupply distress. That should be an advantage only available in the Home system. In other systems Pilots should be encouraged to fly supply themselves should the need arise.
Players should be advised that building more than 20 platforms in the home server means that no Defensive Homeworld Fleet will be available until the extra platforms 20-30 are destroyed or run out of resources.
It is impossible to benefit from the ai Fleet in any other sector/server other than the home sector/server. The fleet is confined to the Home sector/server only.
In any other system controlled by a particular faction the ai available should be severely limited. Here is a proposed scheme for ai numbers Low and High.
Low: 3
1 Combat space patrol of a triple section of three ships of the same type and class. That is all.
High: 7
2 separate triple sections of 3 ships of the same type and class plus 1 dread Elite.
so
3 ships
3 ships
1 Elite.
Enemy invading the system who have built a Shipyard can choose to spawn ai by sending a distress BUT these invading ai use up appropriate resources from the shipyard planet. This means it will be a finite stream if the invaders make no progress and do not make an effort to top up their shipyard with appropriate resources.
Until an invading Faction controls a system their 'invasion fleet' ai should be limited to:
Low: 2
2 seperate ships of random type and class may assist the invaders.
High: 5
3 random ships of same type and class which move to form a triple section
1 Dread of random type
1 Elite cruiser class or below.
The defending Faction to whom the system belongs benefit from Free spawning of ai.
When the invaders take control of the system. The situation is reversed.
Whoever controls the system benefits from resource-free ai spawning
Building more platforms than 28 (if low) or 25 (if high) means no ship ai are available for use by that faction (remember platforms are ai!).
To make it interesting the numbers of ai whether 'Low' or 'High' can be randomised during each MV server reset. All factions should have the same count eg all 'low' or all 'high' so things are deemed fair. Then again, would it really be so bad if different Factions had differring 'low or 'high' counts just to spice things up a bit? : ) In life things are often unpredictable and unfair!
In the homesystem any ai spawning should be from the homegate only. This is due to the fact that they would quickly use up planetary resources, unless it can be set that they do not use up a planets resource pool and instead could spawn from any shipyard that that the faction has access to. Mixing up the spawn point would make it interesting but it should be made more likely that the ship spawns from the closest shipyard to the actual distress call.
When responding to a distress they only jump if they have a white line to the target to avoid planet/star collision.
The ai orders system should be brought back but modified - Now no longer can a single ship be used directly to attack a Player instead the highest ranking player on the faction in the server gets to set the ai tactical behaviour via icons in the Navigation F2 mapscreen, i.e
Offensive - All ai on seek and attack all enemy contacts
Bomb (if a bomber has spawned) - Ai bombers to bomb Random enemy planets and random structures - rest provide close support for bomber - combat does not approach closer than 800gu from planet
Defensive - All ai to respond to planetary and platform enemy attacks,
Mixed - Half ai defend planets and platforms, half seek to attack enemy contacts
Defend Pilots - all ai set to respond to player distress only!
Now there is the problem of ai spamming and exploitation
Perhaps there should be a greater delay between each distress call, say 2 minutes or so. But the response should be detectable. I.e the ai truly responds and arrives with assistance within a certain response time.
Perhaps combat ai should be scripted to never approach more than 1000gu from a planet to prevent them capturing. Capturing should be down to human Pilots and be a result of a determined effort by them. The only exception to this being and MI and Pirates.
Player Faction ai transports should no longer be able to rush and cap a planet of their own accord. Perhaps running transports, like supply should be something that players have to do?
Do ICC ai rotate shields? if not they should do, it would balance them with ai from other factions. K'Luth ai should engage their cloak under attack and prior to engagement, for random periods of time but mostly the full cloak time available to them.
ai bombing of planets should be effective only as a distraction rather than an effective means of preparing a planet for capture. Hence random planet and structure targetting as the default ai bombing script.
Players should not be able to summon ai to form an adhoc ai fleet which follows them around as in previous versions of DS. Some players are obviously remarkably persistant in spamming the key to achieve this. A significant delay would stop this. Purchasable Ally's are meant to fulfill this role.
A single player should not be able to build a first Shipyard, spam ai and then log, work elsewhere or hang around alone in the system expecting their ai to cap the rest of the system for them as some players were previously doing - This in itself feels like an exploit. It is a team game and only a team should be able to capture planets and make a true difference in the MV.
These are just ideas. The current system is not working ideally. Asking for ai supply is in my experience ineffective. When I am defending in a system my Faction controls I feel ai just does not come. I have experienced it invading another system as soon as the shipyard is made and 'online'. Distress can be spammed and many ai arrive. Something has to be done to balance out the problems currently arising from ai.
Thanks for reading this, what are your ideas, reactions and feedback to these suggestions?
[ This Message was edited by: Orkan [OO-XII] on 2014-01-19 18:34 ]
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2014-01-21 01:57
Bumping this thread as I feel discussion on this is useful to affect change...
[ This Message was edited by: Orkan [OO-XII] on 2014-01-21 01:58 ]
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