| Author |
Kluth = nerfed? |
Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
|  Posted: 2014-01-07 05:41
Killboard looks even thirds at the moment...
I don't think there are too many problems. Glad to see some K'luth players embrace the change and recognise the benefits instead of just crying.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2014-01-07 07:35
probably is just a matter of time when other faction figure it out that kluth have adapted and start crying about this version of cloak and there we go again.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2014-01-07 08:45
The cloak still needs to be tweaked imho. Recharge timer is too long on most of the ship classes I have tried. Honestly, a 30 sec cloak on a scout is just too short.
I like the direction its going, but if the cloak times are too short than it will be just a worthless device. Have to find the right balance between cloak all day and laugh, and cloak just being useless.
ATM, I wonder if folks are considering the strengthened EWAR system, and how important it is to the whole overall system. Cloak is far more inline with its original design - just a powerful EWAR device. But still not quite there yet.
Obviously the timer is needed. I would beg for a decent sized, obvious timer. Not anything like that stoopid tiny eye. Damn thing is just too small and I seldom think about looking at it. I would love to see a timer that starts blinking when you are about to lose cloak, or a timer that changes from green to red, as opposed to watching my gadget. Even a circular clock-type timer is better than that, and it needs to be in the top center somewhere.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2014-01-07 08:48
Quote:
On 2014-01-07 07:35, Ravendark wrote:
probably is just a matter of time when other faction figure it out that kluth have adapted and start crying about this version of cloak and there we go again.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2014-01-07 09:07
Quote:
On 2014-01-07 08:45, Azreal wrote:
The cloak still needs to be tweaked imho. Recharge timer is too long on most of the ship classes I have tried. Honestly, a 30 sec cloak on a scout is just too short.
I like the direction its going, but if the cloak times are too short than it will be just a worthless device. Have to find the right balance between cloak all day and laugh, and cloak just being useless.
ATM, I wonder if folks are considering the strengthened EWAR system, and how important it is to the whole overall system. Cloak is far more inline with its original design - just a powerful EWAR device. But still not quite there yet.
Obviously the timer is needed. I would beg for a decent sized, obvious timer. Not anything like that stoopid tiny eye. Damn thing is just too small and I seldom think about looking at it. I would love to see a timer that starts blinking when you are about to lose cloak, or a timer that changes from green to red, as opposed to watching my gadget. Even a circular clock-type timer is better than that, and it needs to be in the top center somewhere.
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Dude, not to be a jerk.....
But I have already said this after testing it in Beta. And y'all were doubting me.
Cloak times need to be tweaked upwards. But let's do it bit by bit instead of a knee-jerk increase. Start with 10% more time and see how it goes.
If you ask me, I have a couple of suggestion on how we can determine cloak time:
METHOD 1
Get a ship of each class to start stationary from a target point, say 1000gus away. Start accelerating till max speed towards that target. Measure the time taken to reach that target point.
That time will take into account the ship's acceleration and top speed. Now, I'm using 1000 GUs as an arbitrary baseline distance. But that is generally the safe jump in distance for Kluth to avoid longer ranged human counterfire as the cloak needs time to activate.
That time taken to reach the target point should be the cloak time for that class of vessel. That's IMO.
METHOD 2
The problem with a fixed and known cloak time is this... the enemy can simply time your cloak and then play games with you to negate that advantage. This has the effect of causing the Kluth player to simply peel off the attack if he realizes that the enemy is keeping his distance. No combat will occur.
So.... Besides simply fixing it to a certain time for each class of vessel (eg. Dreads = 90 secs) we can also add a modifier in addition to the Method 1 as above. If the base sig (without EW effects) yields a cloak time of say... 90 secs. Then anything above that will affect its cloak time negatively, and anything under that will give the ship more cloak time.
We could add... say an additional 1 sec of cloak time for every 3 sig under the baseline. And vice versa for sig over. A simple equation can be like:
Modified Cloak time = Base Cloak time + ((Sig - Base Sig)/3)
This gives a variable cloak time that can be decided by how much EW either side fields.
Oh yes, Devs! Where is the cloak timer??!! 
As for the cloak cooldown, I honestly think that it can be reduced a little more without giving K'luth that get outta jail free effect. After all, in combat... once your energy goes, and in the presence of enemy EW, honestly.... cooldown or not, it's not gonna matter. He won't have enough energy to cloak. The prudent thing to do would be to e-jump out... and far away.
A reduced cooldown will help a Kluth decide to abort the attack and run while he's still a distance away.
Ultimately, a balance point will need to be found for both cloak and cooldown durations.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2014-01-07 09:14 ]
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2014-01-07 12:50
During my drunken testing last night i decided that this cloak is fine, I actually like it!
Why? Once you achieve cloak, it is 100% functioning and 0 ENERGY LOSS while cloaked. This means i can go FULL SPEED while cloaked, I can evade much faster, I can close on the enemy faster, I can react to contact and change my tactics much faster.
Also as I've stated beore in another thread cloak becomes COMPLETELY FREE to use if you can maintain a low or negative sig.
In my opinion, I can now escape hairy situations with it 10x better than before, although I will usualy only have one shot at doing it, or unless they focus eccm or I burn too much energy, then I wont be able to at all.
The cloak duration seems a bit alright for now, could be a bit longer, especially for ships like scouts and frigs.
This cloak is pissing people off, but I think skilled players who adapt to it will be able to pull off crazy stuff with it now. As long as they keep their sig low of course 
I also think most people completely missed the negative sig buff dusk armor got. SHips like the mauler, naga and eclipse jsut got 1000x better, especially if they have some dusk plates and stay away from chit.
I was flying around at full speed in a dessie decked out with dusk armor at 5 sig, and could achieve cloak at the cost of 20 energy which i then regened under cloak(AT FULL SPEED) 5 seconds later.
Granted though that dessie got owned instantly as soon as it saw combat.
This new cloak is weaker yes, but can be more powerful and is obviously more tactical. Adapt or die my friends
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2014-01-07 22:43
Quote:
On 2014-01-07 12:50, -xTc-.ExisT- *XO* wrote:
During my drunken testing last night i decided that this cloak is fine, I actually like it!
Why? Once you achieve cloak, it is 100% functioning and 0 ENERGY LOSS while cloaked. This means i can go FULL SPEED while cloaked, I can evade much faster, I can close on the enemy faster, I can react to contact and change my tactics much faster.
Also as I've stated beore in another thread cloak becomes COMPLETELY FREE to use if you can maintain a low or negative sig.
In my opinion, I can now escape hairy situations with it 10x better than before, although I will usualy only have one shot at doing it, or unless they focus eccm or I burn too much energy, then I wont be able to at all.
The cloak duration seems a bit alright for now, could be a bit longer, especially for ships like scouts and frigs.
This cloak is pissing people off, but I think skilled players who adapt to it will be able to pull off crazy stuff with it now. As long as they keep their sig low of course
I also think most people completely missed the negative sig buff dusk armor got. SHips like the mauler, naga and eclipse jsut got 1000x better, especially if they have some dusk plates and stay away from chit.
I was flying around at full speed in a dessie decked out with dusk armor at 5 sig, and could achieve cloak at the cost of 20 energy which i then regened under cloak(AT FULL SPEED) 5 seconds later.
Granted though that dessie got owned instantly as soon as it saw combat.
This new cloak is weaker yes, but can be more powerful and is obviously more tactical. Adapt or die my friends
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the problem is with dusk armor for that lowered sig your giving up 50% health. so the choice is now for luth to cloak we have to trade off alot of defence. also you gotta remember there are alot of players in this game that will go for that dessie who is doing less over all damage just for that easy kill.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2014-01-08 00:13
Quote:
On 2014-01-07 22:43, Borgie wrote:
the problem is with dusk armor for that lowered sig your giving up 50% health. so the choice is now for luth to cloak we have to trade off alot of defence. also you gotta remember there are alot of players in this game that will go for that dessie who is doing less over all damage just for that easy kill.
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That's why I was proposing whether a modifier to the cloak duration can be added, depending on your signature at that moment.
If so, weaker dusk armor will bestow the pilot with less drain and more cloak time. Chitin, on the other hand, will give him both a higher energy requirement to cloak, as well as a shorter cloak time, but more physical protection.
Think about it. Kluth players can then decide... will I be stealthier and more fragile? Or more armored, and less stealthy?
C'mon devteam. What say you? It's not a pure buff or advantage. It's an option, a trade-off, give and take.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2014-01-08 00:14 ]
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wolf420
Grand Admiral
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 13
| Posted: 2014-01-08 02:53
lets face it guys no matter what they do to luth or icc some one will always cry op and call for nerf it's been going on since i started playing 3 years ago and won't get any better the game was great then now it's just ok at best i have noticed that icc and luth get weaker over the years and ugto gets stronger after all they have the strongest armor and most powerfull weapons yeah thats ballance all right love to know how that figures but thats how it's been and always will be
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2014-01-08 04:43
Quote:
On 2014-01-08 02:53, wolf420 The Imperial King Of Arms wrote:
lets face it guys no matter what they do to luth or icc some one will always cry op and call for nerf it's been going on since i started playing 3 years ago and won't get any better the game was great then now it's just ok at best i have noticed that icc and luth get weaker over the years and ugto gets stronger after all they have the strongest armor and most powerfull weapons yeah thats ballance all right love to know how that figures but thats how it's been and always will be
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Were you here in 2010 in ver 1.5x, when UGTO were basically near unstoppable with their depot spam? They're weaker now. ICC is also a lot more durable... ditto K'Luth.
Though a few things remain that needs to be tweaked, DS is getting better in terms or balance.
However, that being said.... Perfect balance does not always equate to fun. Sometimes a bit of imbalance may prove to actually be more fun than a completely balanced but sterile environment.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2014-01-08 06:26
Figured out what my own issue with cloak was yesterday. I like the cloak, but the mechanics behind it not so much. But I already know I'll be told Im stupid for saying it (as I have already been told by a mod) so I'll just sit on my opins and advice, and wont discuss it anymore.
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2014-01-08 07:54
I think the reason for the sudden drop of K'luth players is because they're discouraged about the pending cloak nerf.
Past week K'luth players were complaining about the coming cloak nerfs into uselessness and wonder why they bother playing. Then one by one log out. Until no one is left.
K'luth faction is demoralized at the moment.
Quote:
On 2014-01-08 04:43, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-08 02:53, wolf420 The Imperial King Of Arms wrote:
lets face it guys no matter what they do to luth or icc some one will always cry op and call for nerf it's been going on since i started playing 3 years ago and won't get any better the game was great then now it's just ok at best i have noticed that icc and luth get weaker over the years and ugto gets stronger after all they have the strongest armor and most powerfull weapons yeah thats ballance all right love to know how that figures but thats how it's been and always will be
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Were you here in 2010 in ver 1.5x, when UGTO were basically near unstoppable with their depot spam? They're weaker now. ICC is also a lot more durable... ditto K'Luth.
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Oh god. Don't remind me. That was just laughable how stupidly over powered that was.
Though supply plat spam and hugging planets now days seem to be pretty up there. But daaamn at 1.5x depot planets.
[ This Message was edited by: Azure Prower on 2014-01-08 08:00 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2014-01-08 08:28
Quote:
On 2014-01-08 00:13, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-07 22:43, Borgie wrote:
the problem is with dusk armor for that lowered sig your giving up 50% health. so the choice is now for luth to cloak we have to trade off alot of defence. also you gotta remember there are alot of players in this game that will go for that dessie who is doing less over all damage just for that easy kill.
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That's why I was proposing whether a modifier to the cloak duration can be added, depending on your signature at that moment.
If so, weaker dusk armor will bestow the pilot with less drain and more cloak time. Chitin, on the other hand, will give him both a higher energy requirement to cloak, as well as a shorter cloak time, but more physical protection.
Think about it. Kluth players can then decide... will I be stealthier and more fragile? Or more armored, and less stealthy?
C'mon devteam. What say you? It's not a pure buff or advantage. It's an option, a trade-off, give and take.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2014-01-08 00:14 ]
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I get it, nobody likes being vulnerable, but the cloak time is enough as it is and there is already enough of a difference between Dusk and Chitin for people to make the choice.
Personally, I've been using Dusk on long range ships, or with T1 and T2 ships, adding in plates with Organic to have a natural low signature.
I keep hearing the whole "they'll just wait out your cloat timer" but this hasn't been my experience at all - human ships can't see you and can't track you invisible, so how are they going to wait you out when they don't know where you are?
It doesn't matter if they know how long you are cloaked (and honestly most people can't keep a rolling 45+ second timer in their heads for multiple ships can they?) because you're probably going to cancel it before it runs out anyways.
I've had no trouble getting into position, hell even scoring kills in platform infested dictor fields with teamwork now (and in that situation, it was just one other ship helping me vs. 4 of the enemy).
I mean sure, you could make it easy for them by jumping in alone in a ship vs. five of them, but you should be dead or running by all rights anyways. I think people just don't understand that Kluth is not a solo play faction, and you cannot take on armies of ships with one ship. You cannot do it, and we will not encourage it.
In a lot of ways, this cloak is even stronger than it was before. But players just see timers and cooldowns and don't actually get in there and fight and see for themselves how much more freedom you really have.
-Ent
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2014-01-08 10:15
Quote:
On 2014-01-08 08:28, Ent wrote:
In a lot of ways, this cloak is even stronger than it was before. But players just see timers and cooldowns and don't actually get in there and fight and see for themselves how much more freedom you really have.
-Ent
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yeah, no longer can i cloak and fall asleep 
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Kinthalas
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: January 01, 2003
Posts: 60
| Posted: 2014-01-08 12:24
Quote:
On 2014-01-08 10:15, Ravendark wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-08 08:28, Ent wrote:
In a lot of ways, this cloak is even stronger than it was before. But players just see timers and cooldowns and don't actually get in there and fight and see for themselves how much more freedom you really have.
-Ent
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yeah, no longer can i cloak and fall asleep
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Hah! I'm not the only one
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