On 2014-04-08 21:32, Ent wrote:

There is nothing stopping a large group of people from jumping a planet at the same time.

The only thing stopping people is the knowledge that someone is probably going to die before the dictor gets taken down.

Well, I hate to be that guy and point out the error in your logic, so I'll try and be gentle. Please define your idea of a "large group." Is that 2 icc vs 3 ugto, 3 ugto vs 3 kluth, or one lonely defender vs 17 ai?

Darkspace has always succumbed to the Field of Dreams mentality (if you build it they will come) and I'm sure in the current state of the game that a battle of 30+ players would be most enjoyable. However, you don't have the playerbase to accomplish that, and there seems to be no effort being made to fix it.

Telling someone to attack in a large group when there are no players on is kind of like asking them to bang their head against a wall. I realize it doesn't stop you from asking anyways, but don't expect people to take you seriously.

[ This Message was edited by: Orkan [OO-XII] on 2014-04-09 20:32 ]

On 2014-04-09 18:02, Rae wrote:

Quote: On 2014-04-08 21:32, Ent wrote: There is nothing stopping a large group of people from jumping a planet at the same time. The only thing stopping people is the knowledge that someone is probably going to die before the dictor gets taken down.

Well, I hate to be that guy and point out the error in your logic, so I'll try and be gentle. Please define your idea of a "large group." Is that 2 icc vs 3 ugto, 3 ugto vs 3 kluth, or one lonely defender vs 17 ai?

Darkspace has always succumbed to the Field of Dreams mentality (if you build it they will come) and I'm sure in the current state of the game that a battle of 30+ players would be most enjoyable. However, you don't have the playerbase to accomplish that, and there seems to be no effort being made to fix it.

Telling someone to attack in a large group when there are no players on is kind of like asking them to bang their head against a wall. I realize it doesn't stop you from asking anyways, but don't expect people to take you seriously.

[ This Message was edited by: Rae on 2014-04-09 18:10 ]

On 2014-04-10 10:34, Ent wrote:

Quote: On 2014-04-09 18:02, Rae wrote: Quote: On 2014-04-08 21:32, Ent wrote: There is nothing stopping a large group of people from jumping a planet at the same time. The only thing stopping people is the knowledge that someone is probably going to die before the dictor gets taken down. Well, I hate to be that guy and point out the error in your logic, so I'll try and be gentle. Please define your idea of a "large group." Is that 2 icc vs 3 ugto, 3 ugto vs 3 kluth, or one lonely defender vs 17 ai? Darkspace has always succumbed to the Field of Dreams mentality (if you build it they will come) and I'm sure in the current state of the game that a battle of 30+ players would be most enjoyable. However, you don't have the playerbase to accomplish that, and there seems to be no effort being made to fix it. Telling someone to attack in a large group when there are no players on is kind of like asking them to bang their head against a wall. I realize it doesn't stop you from asking anyways, but don't expect people to take you seriously. [ This Message was edited by: Rae on 2014-04-09 18:10 ]

I have actively watched (and particpated) in scenarios where odds as much as 3:1 were still not enough to convince the attacking fleet to engage a bunch of missile ships at close range in an interdictor.

10vs3, 9vs2.. been there and seen it. Its an interesting thing to watch.

While I certainly don't expect people to pull miracles out of nowhere, people do decidedly choose not to attack even if they do happen to have numerical superiority. This aversion to attacking planets seems to disappear entirely when the interdictor is removed, even when grossly outnumbered.

Part of helping improve the game is by observing how and why players react to different situations. It's been pretty clear to me for a while that people really really don't like to lose progression, and will avoid any chance of it however it small it is. It's why I don't think the ships themselves are the problem, or planets really, but one very specific feature.

Please take the time to review this thread:

http://www.darkspace.net/index.htm?module=forums.php&page=/viewtopic.php&topic=54446&forum=285


-Ent

On 2014-04-10 11:59, Talien wrote:
There's PLENTY of people who no longer need pres but still don't want to use role specific ships. Many of the people who actually enjoy such roles no longer play because the game is so watered down it's just not fun anymore, or like me, are just too busy with RL stuff.

It's too bad that some kind of class balancing is taboo here, at least that way we wouldn't constantly end up with people in nothing but combat ships complaining that there's no combat because nobody wants to leave their planets. Even if Planetary Interdictors are removed there still won't be any combat because the outnumbered side will have absolutely nowhere to go and will log off to avoid being farmed. At least now there's a CHOICE for the attackers to bring the proper ships in to deal with planets, it's just a matter of people choosing not to and then complaining about the results of their own choices.
[ This Message was edited by: Ent on 2014-04-10 13:31 ]

On 2014-04-10 13:26, Ent wrote:
I think this is an important point to consider, but remember that planets can be built to be very sturdy, and in future patches will be even stronger.

I think as far as numbers balancing goes, at some point we are going to have to incentivise balanced factions. I don't think we can ever completely eliminate being outnumbers, and hey, sorry but sometimes someone has to lose.

I think thats something of a flaw in that losing is neccessary in the game in order for it to progress, but losing is very harsh.

I think we should reconsider at some point the death penalty. I personally think the game would be better off without it, and instead you gain more prestige the longer you live (multipler bonuses per hour lived in a ship), and possible badges associated with such things.

Why do I think the death penalty is such a negative thing? It breeds an overly competitive and hostile atmosphere. I might even say at times toxic. I think it really puts off new players as well, which is something we really want to avoid, don't we?

I think we can do better than outright erase progression, personally. I don't think people would mind being outnumbered or dieing so much if it didn't actually set you back. I personally think the issue of constant suicide can be avoided by something as simple as a 300 second cooldown after five consecutive deaths under 300 seconds, or reducing the amount of prestige a person gains after consectuive deaths to zero, so they gain nothing for throwing their ships away.

I think we avoid easy solutions because we like to perseve an ideal 'risk' based game, but in reality it is often unfair and unrewarding. I think its something to consider.




-Ent

On 2014-04-10 13:26, Ent wrote:


Why do I think the death penalty is such a negative thing? It breeds an overly competitive and hostile atmosphere. I might even say at times toxic. I think it really puts off new players as well, which is something we really want to avoid, don't we?



-Ent

On 2014-04-11 09:32, pigghoti wrote:
i think it relates to this topic but idk, what are seige missiles for? i thought they might be for planets but they don't do anything of worth; tried attacking ships but that was fruitless. any ideas on what they are used for?

On 2014-04-11 10:25, Talien wrote:

Quote: On 2014-04-11 09:32, pigghoti wrote: i think it relates to this topic but idk, what are seige missiles for? i thought they might be for planets but they don't do anything of worth; tried attacking ships but that was fruitless. any ideas on what they are used for?

They're for attacking planets but they've been glitched for a very long time, just use regular bombs instead.

On 2014-04-21 10:58, Iwancoppa wrote:
Here's a planet siege missile secret. They're brutal for depopulating planets, and you get a ton of them. Simply sit back, and fire away. You can do this from a standoff range in a combat situation, espcially if the enemy is hiding and not PDing missiles. A constant stream is easy to do and will de-pop a world. PSMs are niche but work well.

On 2014-04-21 10:58, Iwancoppa wrote:
Here's a planet siege missile secret. They're brutal for depopulating planets, and you get a ton of them. Simply sit back, and fire away. You can do this from a standoff range in a combat situation, espcially if the enemy is hiding and not PDing missiles. A constant stream is easy to do and will de-pop a world. PSMs are niche but work well.