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Some UGTO ships needs to be weakened |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2009-02-06 12:00
This is that patch:
Quote:
| We have another important series of updates for DarkSpace to notify you about.
The updates and changes are as follows:
- Serialization optimization which reduces the size of WOB's and transmitted data. This caused a update of most of the WOB files to a new format. Data sent over the network will be dramatically smaller.
- Multi-System Enhancements are now implemented.
- Enhancements are now color coded according to how rare they are.
- Adjusted "common" enhancements to be more balanced. In addition some may have small side effects also.
- Added a manifest to the lobby for Vista.
- Minor adjustments made to Mi ship's, devices, and visual effects.
- Platforms are now more robust.
- Fixed issue with prevalent ECCM/ECM pinging on high tier ships - cool-down now scales up with ship class.
- Improved AI spawns. |
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-02-06 12:58
Jack jack jack... oh you did it again.
Plz read what others have writen before you bring up those wise words of yours.
Nightsabre and ArturK wrote awhile ago in this topic exaclty what you said that needs to be done, they were infact 3 or 4 ships hitting same arc and thats what they were kinda complaining about. They were 5 ships you just said that 2 is enough? let me do the math?.......
And you countered their explanation with you mumble! PLz go and read it again and after that deside how its done either a 3-4 man crew can do it or not make up you damn MIND.
So either its unbalanced or something in that directiion or then its what sparkle said some fault in MV with desync and everything.
So deside what the problem is and fix it and stop saying everything IS FINE BECAUSE its not and for those side standers that speak of Devs do free job for the game, well if they dont want to they can quit? RIGHT? noone making em and if they have the power to make things work a bit more correclty they we have our rights to make em understand that!
So you proud player go and play if you want so will i but i wont stop complaining as long as there is so major problems with the game!
peace
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-02-06 13:27
Quote:
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On 2009-02-06 12:58, Daedalus Bum wrote:
So either its unbalanced or something in that directiion or then its what sparkle said some fault in MV with desync and everything.
So deside what the problem is and fix it and stop saying everything IS FINE
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He said the problem wasn't the balance. He did that again. You, again, conflated other issues to blame him for not making sense, when in fact he was addressing the perceived imbalance of the ship being caused by problems not directly related to the ship.
In other words, damage is bugged, ship balance is not.
(not to say its perfect, but 5v1 is not the fault of the EAD alone)
Can we shift back to more productive territory now?
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-02-06 14:58
Dude really lol, learn to read god damn, i didint say its the balance, GEEEZ read.
I said unbalance or something it that direction..... Meaning actually that something is bugged(cause i have and noone seems to know whats wrong but something is). So stop beeing rude and keeping blaming me for something i havent said.
Am tierd at Jacks explanations, when he instead could look into the problem or atleast say to us that it will be taken care of i due time.
Cause i dont know how busy you are fixing everything else.
But instead he keeps jabering about that we are not using our heads.
And thats the samething as insulting us and at same time just ignoring everything (NOT cool for a dev to do).
So reason why i keep blaming Jack is cause he just cant work as a Dev.
Pisses me of, when he instead of actually helping makes things harder.
Jacks been pointing out that everything is FINE and we are Wrong. Ok we are wrong about what we think but still it does not SOLVE the problem.
And if you just said that everything is not FINE. Then finally a Dev that realizes the situation, i hope. And then you might look into it mabye?
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Dionysian *EP5* (Angel of Destruction)
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: November 21, 2003
Posts: 135
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:04
So let me get this right
5 KLuth dreads attack 1 EAD that nearly dies.
Because it doesn;t go bang with 5 alphas youthink OMFG the EAD is bugged - the devs are biased - everyone hates luth etc etc.
Why not try 5 UGTO ALphas v a Siphon,. Lets see how much damage that makes. My bet would be that the siphon would probably live.
Add in the tactical advantages that you get ( i.e. cloak - the ability to discharge an alpha into an EADs rear with no real danger and then jump out) and you can se why most ugto players think that Kluth is overpowered.
If devs have UGTO thinking that KLuth is overpowered and kluth think that UGTO is overpowered then they about right.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:14
Quote:
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On 2009-02-06 13:27, Shigernafy wrote:
Can we shift back to more productive territory now?
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Seconded. Oh-so-seconded.
Two problems I perceive here:
1: The arc bug rears its ugly head once again. Admittedly, not directly related to the problem, but it is a problem associated with damage-dealing.
2: Some shots failing to deal damage at all, causing ships to apparently become tougher. Desync issue? Not sure how this can be investigated.
Aside from finding some way to test this in-game, this seems to be a dev-territory problem.
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:20
I dunno how it did happen with 5vs1 i werent there but i doubt that thats the case that they whine of that. But infact there have been other problems, that is not Overpowered ships you speak of. What ppl have been saying in this topic is what they think is wrong(suspect).
But as Sparkle said it could be in MV desyncing that all dmg does not count. who knows. But my point from my first post to this topic is that Jacks been ignoring everything and thats not the way a Dev should be.
As i said before, if the balancing is ok then i belive ya and admit WE/I were wrong but still there is something wrong that needs fixing.
And Dion, you compearing is quit of the grid am kinda sure a EAD could take more of a beating than a siphon. Again i think not tested so dont blame me for saying something i didint (DEVS).
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:22
I haven't been ignoring anything at all. I suggest you go back and actually read my posts.
There is nothing wrong with the EAD, or UGTO balancing. That's all I've stated, and continue to stated, and that's what this thread is about.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:31
Quote:
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On 2009-02-05 16:06, ssj4megaman wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-02-05 15:57, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
They're fine.
We use a point system, so no matter how much one ship is + in one area, you always make up for it. No ship in the game goes over those points.
Next time, try firing on the same arc, use more co-ordination, and for use your heads. It's about time YOU (the players) start thinking for yourselves and how to combat these problems. We're not here to hold your hands into every battle.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2009-02-05 15:59 ]
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lol, all i can do is laugh.. i guess that means you or whomever needs to redo the point system. you telling me that the most overpowered race in the game should have a ship that acts like a station and be able to stand up to 5 FREAKING dread? are you serious? no wonder people are leaving again...
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your wasting your time, devs in this game heavyly favore ugto
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:41
Arg.
I think Daedalus Bum and Jack (and apparently me) are misunderstanding one another. Thus, I suggest you ignore eachother for a while, since the combined weight of your successive posts seems to make it impossible to hold a productive discussion.
But this is just me as a thread-reader observing; not counseling anything officially.
Also, I am frankly offended that you would say I favor UGTO. I prefer Gaifen.
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:46
If players are able to pick out specific issues with specific ship layouts, then I may start to listen, but until then...
So far I have seen no conclusive testing to prove that the EAD is overpowered in comparison to other ships. There are certain configurations which make it better or worse against specific damage types, but each of these has it's counter.
FYI, a 'super' dreadnought does have an armor/shield capacity increase over the standard dreadnought classes, but this does not exceed about 10% and has been checked and verified in code. There are no differences between the various hull stats for each faction other than the actual layouts. This has already been checked and verified by Jack, yet I have spent another hour rechecking everything just to make sure, and guess what? Nothing wrong.
What we do believe is that there may still be some damage assignment issues with the game code. It is a constant struggle to make this code more resilient and robust while not negatively impacting the performance of the game, and there is a fine line to be drawn. Sometimes a seemingly innocuous change will break things, or make other bugs much more apparent. This is in likelihood what has happened here.
A tremendous amount of effort has gone into ensuring that the various factions are balanced. There are some minor niggles with regards to the fine tuning, but it is mostly working out as expected.
Anyway, thank you for making me take an hour of my time to essentially restate what the rest of the Development Team have already tried to say, although no one seems to be listening or actually producing verifiable and reproduceable results, other than...
...the Development Team.
Go figure.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:49
Quote:
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On 2009-02-06 15:41, Shigernafy wrote:
Arg.
I think Daedalus Bum and Jack (and apparently me) are misunderstanding one another. Thus, I suggest you ignore eachother for a while, since the combined weight of your successive posts seems to make it impossible to hold a productive discussion.
But this is just me as a thread-reader observing; not counseling anything officially.
Also, I am frankly offended that you would say I favor UGTO. I prefer Gaifen.
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i dunno shig you don't count
also didn't see this was a 5 page thread untill now
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Borgie on 2009-02-06 15:50 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-02-06 15:49
@Spark,
Well, you got a good point there. I get desync always once or twice in a day. But the problem is why everyone gets same desync at same time while shooting on same thing. 5 ships see him at 3% hull. So in a case, if 5 player was desyned what causes this? As any player knows , you get system damage under 50% hull automaticly.If you are not kluth u cant repair all the devices at same time (correct me if i am wrong). Even being a kluth and having repair option on all your device, if you are under heavy fire constantly from 5 sides within 200 gu and you are at 3% your auto repair wont work for your devices. FAs and above ranked players know . There is a moment before you lose a station(under 30% hull) that u can not even activate repair drones because of heavy system damage. Althought, this guy jumped out at 3% hull with almost no armor.
As I wrote , i get desync problem often. But when this occurs , simply i do NOT make any damage on target. This guy went down until 3% and sure,even with desynced, this guy had to wait around one minute to repair his jump drive which suppose to be damaged at 100%.
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Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2009-02-06 16:28
After wasting 5 minutes of my life reading this crap I just gotta comment. First off, kudos to both MrSparkle and Jack for actually jumping in ships and POSTING SOME ACTUAL DATA. As to the rest of you, you're using third hand quotes, stating opinions, and in general being a pain in the ass. Anyone bothering to read the mods/dev's replies would see they clearly state they think it's a desync issue. The rest of you tards that continue to spew needles angst in the forums really need a break from this game. As an aside... I see Jack taking alot of flack from some of you. It seems this is because he attempts to give you an answer you don't like or feel insulted by. Why not direct your ire at Shigernafy? I would like to see you guys talk to him like you do to Jack and lets see what happens? Yeah, that's what I thought. Lamers go home.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-06 16:58
Quote:
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On 2009-02-06 15:49, Pakhos wrote:
@Spark,
Well, you got a good point there. I get desync always once or twice in a day. But the problem is why everyone gets same desync at same time while shooting on same thing. 5 ships see him at 3% hull. So in a case, if 5 player was desyned what causes this? As any player knows , you get system damage under 50% hull automaticly.If you are not kluth u cant repair all the devices at same time (correct me if i am wrong). Even being a kluth and having repair option on all your device, if you are under heavy fire constantly from 5 sides within 200 gu and you are at 3% your auto repair wont work for your devices. FAs and above ranked players know . There is a moment before you lose a station(under 30% hull) that u can not even activate repair drones because of heavy system damage. Althought, this guy jumped out at 3% hull with almost no armor.
As I wrote , i get desync problem often. But when this occurs , simply i do NOT make any damage on target. This guy went down until 3% and sure,even with desynced, this guy had to wait around one minute to repair his jump drive which suppose to be damaged at 100%.
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I've been noticing that when I desync, I seem to do damage to the target that makes it look like I'm taking it all the way down to 0% hull, when in fact it's nowhere near 0%. I do a quick relog (takes less than a minute total, maybe not even 30 seconds) and when I get back my target has 40% hull.
Incidentally, vs these same exact targets I'm noticing that sometimes I do no damage at all, and sometimes I do very little damage. It's the same target that eventually gets to 0% but wont' be destroyed because it's in fact not at 0%.
I just did this now. The most curious thing is that this vs AI, not players, and it's only one AI ship that's affected, not all of the ships. So when I desync (or the server desyncs, I don't know exactly what's going on), not everything is affected like you might expect (if you are desynced wouldn't everything in the MV seem desynced to you?). Only 1 ship is affected.
Very weird. I do suspect that if the target player is desynced damage vs him gets all screwed up. It might not be the attacker that needs to be desynced in order for this to happen.
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