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Some UGTO ships needs to be weakened |
Lithium
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2003
Posts: 109
|  Posted: 2009-02-06 17:10
Jack,
Arc bug damage is NOT duplicated.
It's shared and it's an another advantage of EAD
AND why did you test against 36% armor mandy?
It's too far from fair ...
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Deltabacon
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 17, 2007
Posts: 395
From: Liverpool, Great Britain
| Posted: 2009-02-06 17:12
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On 2009-02-06 15:41, Shigernafy wrote:
Also, I am frankly offended that you would say I favor UGTO. I prefer Gaifen.
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Shigernafy dominated your thread. FACE IT.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-06 18:32
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On 2009-02-06 17:10, Lithium wrote:
Jack,
Arc bug damage is NOT duplicated.
It's shared and it's an another advantage of EAD
AND why did you test against 36% armor mandy?
It's too far from fair ...
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Firstly, it is duplicated, and not shared. We know, because when a ship has the arc bug, and you fire onto the front facing, their armour disipates much, much, much quicker than normal. Whether it's being duplicated 100%, 50% or 200%, I don't know - but it's deffinately additional.
As far as 36% armour mandy...
A) I had entirely damage-based enhancements (or enhancements allowing me to damage the person more over time), so they would be in affect.
B) He had a lot of manouvering enhancements, that were going to waste.
C) I could see him straight away - he was not using cloak at all.
D) We were facing each other, not moving, and making zero use of hit and run tactics that the K'luth are in prime possition to abuse.
All of this stacks up in my favour, even with the 36% armour. If you add all of this up, me coming out with just +25% hull over his (when we were just using pure alpha strikes, and not contuinally firing), is nothing special, and not surprising.
You've had a reply from not one, not two, but three developers in this thread. Two of which are stating that the balance is absolutely fine, and as intended.
If you want me to make a test where the K'luth starts from behind me (realistic), and alpha's me, so I have to turn around in my EAD (which turns like a pig), then I will. But that pilot'll win. And I'll then come here and whine that K'luth are too powerful, and demand that all my weapons are full facing so I can smite the dastardly K'luth.
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2009-02-06 19:27
So what I'm getting from this thread.
-Nothing is wrong with the EAD or any other ship in the game.
-There are problems with players desynching and other bugs that affect the way damage is registered.
-The developers are working to find and correct these known bugs.
Why is this thread still going?
[ This Message was edited by: Sops on 2009-02-06 19:27 ]
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2009-02-06 19:32
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On 2009-02-06 17:10, Lithium wrote:
Jack,
[Whine snippage]
It's too far from fair ...
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So go and test it yourself, then.
I don't see why people seem to be expecting the devs to test and fix everything, only to basically go "I don't believe you, whine whine whine" when they do, and essentially ignore everything the devs are saying.
Assuming anyone reads this, I would suggest, before you post:
1: Find an EAD in-game.
2: Ask if you can shoot at it a bit in your Siphon.
3: Make a note of how much damage you can inflict.
IF said EAD proves to be invulnerable, and it's not due to some weird bug, and everyone's synced, feel free to resume complaining. However, should you find that, shock horror, it's a mere 10% more resistant (thanks Draf) than your average dread, maybe you should consider that perhaps it's not entirely intended for EADs to be ridiculously tough and there's a bug somewhere.
And another thing: The devs and mods and staff in general put in a lot of time and effort for this game, for nothing but the joy of getting to play something that they've crafted themselves. Why they would conspire to make one team more powerful than the rest, when all it does in the end is ruin the game's enjoyability, I have no idea, and yet everyone bitches at them and accuses them of rigging game balance. I think I've seen one thread EVER (I may be mistaken in either direction, here) saying "thank you" to the people who actually work on this game, in spite of the fact that they have to put up with this barrage of whining constantly from all corners every time they make the littlest change. They're all showing what I'd class as superhuman patience here, where lessers would quit and leave the game in 1.48X limbo, to slowly wither and die under a hail of escort destroyers.
But I digress. Maybe because my name's not in green people won't automatically dismiss my statement that the EAD's armour is not the problem, it is teh bugz, but I'm skeptical.
I'm betting the post directly below mine will contain a sentence along the lines of "Jack try K'luth for a bit and see how unkillable ur baby is".
[EDIT] Okay, so that last sentence was wrong. As was the penultimate one. Ah well.
[ This Message was edited by: Gejaheline on 2009-02-06 20:51 ]
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-02-06 20:22
Quote:
| If players are able to pick out specific issues with specific ship layouts, then I may start to listen, but until then... |
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Thank you draf.
increase the power output on an AD by 5 to 10% to inline it with the EAD...
Give the siphon an additional front arc of armour to inline it with the EAD...
Now as i play all 3 factions, im not partial to one. So this isnt me hating on the other ships, this is me simply being honest about my opinion.
@ Sparkle, the EAD died with the AD in 5% hull. The AD also, was Fornax. and the EAD was Disasterpiece. they were littlerally sitting like 50 gu from each other
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-06 20:36
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On 2009-02-06 20:22, Meko wrote:
Quote:
| If players are able to pick out specific issues with specific ship layouts, then I may start to listen, but until then... |
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Thank you draf.
increase the power output on an AD by 5 to 10% to inline it with the EAD...
Give the siphon an additional front arc of armour to inline it with the EAD...
Now as i play all 3 factions, im not partial to one. So this isnt me hating on the other ships, this is me simply being honest about my opinion.
@ Sparkle, the EAD died with the AD in 5% hull. The AD also, was Fornax. and the EAD was Disasterpiece. they were littlerally sitting like 50 gu from each other
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AD has shields which are drawing the power, nothing else. We cannot magically put another gen, or lower the shield power. They're like they are for a reason. If we give them more power, then they can go faster with shields - not intended. If we make shields use less power, then the same happens. They're designed to have more power issues than UGTO because they have much more defence.
The Siphon, again, shouldn't have an extra front armour because K'luth aren't designed to duke it out with other ships. They're not designed to be hit a lot, so why are we giving them even more armour to promote this type of play?
The fact you just stated the AD was at 5% hull and they were facing each other at 50 GU destroys all crediability of your overpowered story. At that range their torps, cannons, hell EVERYTHING except the beams, are going to be causing splash damage. They were basicly doing TWO assault dreads worth of damage to each other! It's no wonder the AD barely got out alive!
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2009-02-06 20:45 ]
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-02-07 00:45
My own opinion about what could cause the dmg problems sometimes.
Dunno how or why but sometimes it feels like when several ppl shoot at same target the server cant keep up counting how much DMG is beeing taken. And then it "Skips" some Damage and thats why it could be that some ships feels "overpowered"  . But then again i how no ide how the system works whit that.
And Jack said that siphon dont need another forward arc, and that kluth streangth is cloaking hit and run like someone pointed.
There is the kluths problem then as you been nerfed the cloaks.
1. They are slow (i know that Bigger ships cloak slower i think atleast )
2. Plus with the bug kluth haves sometimes its even slower.
3. Bug is when you uncloak and when weapons turns green you hit space
or a hot key, but still no damage is given. (So cloak is wortless, enemy either have turned towards you or jumped out of fear ).
- And as someone said that that we should cloak go to enemy ships rear uncloak and boom his either DMG beyond repairs or dead.
- But it wont work as long as we keep having our darn bugs.
4. ECCM Pinging weakens our Strength and kluth engines can still be heard? (Dunno). And i know that the ECCM have been given a cooldown.
But that still no use. SO keep saying we have our cloak but as i see it we dont have any cloak!
As far for the ECCM i think it were made not against the RoC nad given a cooldown cause it werent fixable? am i wrong?
And to say now when ICC and UGTO have a weapon against kluth cloaks(Makes us weak), why not kluth finally after many years struggle against the humans a Super weapon that cuts trought their armor as it would not be there even. Well its the same thing right. Our cloaks nerfed so why not nerf UGTOS armor? etc. And for the record i really dont want a super weapon or something like that. Just pointing out that everything is not FINE 
There might be more problems with it than i mentioned.
But point beeing that our cloak should be our grand weapon that some Devs have being pointing out but i just dont see its grandness.
And for the record i can play as kluth, so pls dont throw me some pointless comment as *Lean to play as kluth* *Use your head* and something else like that.
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Sauur
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: November 30, 2004
Posts: 475
| Posted: 2009-02-07 02:04
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4. ECCM Pinging weakens our Strength and kluth engines can still be heard? (Dunno). And i know that the ECCM have been given a cooldown.
But that still no use. SO keep saying we have our cloak but as i see it we dont have any cloak!
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Got to agree with this - have been part of dread fleets sneaking (text book luth tactics) in from 5000+ gu onto a small uggie fleet (station, dread and few minors) only to be pinged from up to 1500 gu out, jumped upon and hulled before can even unloak. All that is left to do is jump out as cloak comes off and the other luth dreads are now in a battle not part of an ambush. This is not cloak as I understand it is meant to be.
Signature reading does not seem to rise to indicate that we have been pinged either to warn us (may be desync). Have experimented with this to some degree. It used to work.
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ADmiraLMaXimus (Bringer of Doom)
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 363
From: Earth
| Posted: 2009-02-07 02:18
well ive played all sides. you have to remember now that we have enhancements there are some players with ships that have extra armor, or extra beam/weapons range, or extra beams/weapons power, or extra shield power, or energy usage is reduced for beams or projectile weapons.
I love playing kluth, that is my favorite faction and I have seen all kinds of things that make me sick in combat. things that seem unfair or unbalanced but usually there is a valid reaon for most of them.
for example, i saw 4 screen shots that were taken of an kluth mandi vs. an ead. i did notice that the ships were within 130 gu of eachother. that would make the ead beams more effective since they inflict more damage the closer they get to target, usually kluth attacks are from 200gu and human beam weapons do less damage. still 5 vs 1... with all that time to hit that ead, it should have been toast within 5 alphas... regardless of stradegy.... however i understand there was another ship there a TC, and i will bet not all the players were focusing on hitting just one ship... i bet that at least 2 of the attacking vessels thought there were enough players and firepower to take care of the ead and switched to attack the TC... giving the ead a chance by taking less damage. but to be sure i would have to had been there... but i have been there i have played as ugto and i have battled against several kluth ships at once and i know that as long as i have other ships with me the focus almost always shifts around or i fly my ship towards my allies to take some fire off me. and I have flown in front of nme fire to protect a failing ship from being destroyed. there are many reasons for things to happen the way they do. lets not get crazy about this though... it is after all just a game....
but i have been in real combat as well and someone always has an advantage... things dont always go as planned... there is no balance in combat
just do what are meant to do... plan for the worst and hope for best
have fun kids 
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ssj4megaman
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2003
Posts: 54
From: San Diego
| Posted: 2009-02-07 02:30
All the talk about the ead is for a couple of reasons...
MOST people by FAR play ugto, including high level players. Far more than kluth and i assume icc. Each of the people usually have access to and DO use ead's in every battle. There is hardly a battle where i see a kluth ever single handedly kill an ead (hardly not never) but many many many times i see an ead pulverize kluth ships, so those are my comments of imblance.
There may not be any imbalance in the actual numbers but something is happening that we are seeing.
2 Everything does not just add to numbers.. Look, the EAD hits alot harder we know this, AND it MUCH better arcs then pretty much any kluth ship, AND it can be equiped to better handle beam ships.. etc etc.
So basically you have a ship which can keep pouring on the fire on a target unless they are directly behind it, where as we have to manueuver to fire at a target alot more than a ead has to. So whatever % of the time we dont have the arc to fire, we are taking dmg from the ead with weapons that hit harder (in most situations)... , especially when close up, and who the hell fights at far range unless your ship is meant to, i mean our torps are so slow they are useless at the range when using our beams. We have to fight close/range to make use of our beams which ugto can get better defense against..
So this is my talk on imblance. Ugto has too many advantages compared to everyone else. to even this out i think kluth ships should turn faster (mainly the dreads and maybe stations) heck this could be implemented as the slower you are the faster you turn, that way at speed you cannot dodge everthing even easier since MOST of are weapons are foward arcs to make up for the better arcs on the EAD. And allow us more options for armor, chitinous armor is the biggest joke in the whole game, ask any kluth, it is NOT useful at all.
I think the flux's stack, being under attack by alot of ugto with flux and you are lucky if you can activate your cloak because i think they stack (this part is from memory but it seemed that way, i couldnt even jump away)
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-02-07 03:46
Well i agree partly whit everyone but still after a good night sleep i see Jacks point of that EAD is FINE.
And mabye the other ships to. But the problem is as i said the cloak then.
Whitout the cloak Kluth = Usless.
And i cant say if ICC haves problems cause i havent played ICC for a very long time, last time i played i recall that Shield rotation was Uber but what ive heard its usless these days. But as i said, i have no clue of ICC
And to say thats ironic, when a kluth needs to counter ECM that UGTO uses most of times we need to use our Great weakness the "ECCM". Wich main purpose have been to counter ECM but as we speak its used by ICC and UGTO to counter our cloak. SO indeed when we try to Counter the ECM at the same time we might Ping ourself/our teammates. =P
Back to the point ECCM should be and is an Countermesure for ECM not for countering cloak.
The cloak got its weakness from before that Becons and Energy drain.
Thats simply enough for enemy to try to find us.
And i know most of ppl cant use dont know what ECCM pinging is but still in due time it will be used al the time. Plz remove Pining. If its not fixable remove ECCM then completly untill its fixed.
And to recall as a Dev said when a ICC whined about the cooldown for ECCM, that smaller ships as scouts have less cooldown(point was that scouts will get a purpose to the game). So if scouts can use becons they still have the purpose for the game.
My story in short i wish Kluth cloak gets fixed and desync fixed and i think normal game play from kluth should work with less whine for awhile atleast.
And i know this topic was not about Cloaks or ECCM but Devs/Playes started to speak of em so i just took it up as a important FACT!
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-02-07 04:06
Oh and forgot to mention what SSJ4 and maximus said about EAD and unbalance, and about that a 1on1 situation with EAD and kluth dread.
Whit my understanding of Devs saying is that kluth armor is weaker compared to UGTO, ok i understand that now. IF the cloak gets fixed. But if it doesent its not FINE.
UGTO = Armor = FINE (I know arc bug is bad, but its not just UGTO who gets it)
Kluth = Cloak = Not FINE
ICC = Shields = Not enough energy? (Dunno!, a icc pilot can comment this)
And ssj4 you said a EAD beats almost always up a Kluth dread in 1on1 situation. Yes mabye its true, but mabye cause of we dont get to use our cloak as it should work? And because we dont have enough armor. But as in every game every faction must always have its weakness in some form.
So kluth weakness: Less armor and organic, energy drain from ruptors.(And atm cloak that does not work to our benefit as it should).
UGTO weakness: Slow turning, no cloak(Plz add something havent played UGTO to much either)
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mannythepogs
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 140
From: mbllanes
| Posted: 2009-02-07 04:48
I agree with this .. as all dev's says cloaking is the best weapon of kluth, but its fairly useless, we hardly escape from it ... unless we jump then cloak.
there is a time delay in cloaking so much that the AI also knows where we are and keep firing, that means giving our position to other players.
And if they are pingging the cloak Kluth, then its fairly useless for your so called Ambush tactics.
I haven't played the game for a long while and havent tried another ship besides Kluth, but the cloaking now sucks.. it like giving all kluth in a silver platter for the UGTO and ICC to fry.
The only reason kluth is not going down at the moment is because of teamwork, loyalty and people online at the same time.
Imagine this, Imbalance.
we need 7-10 ppl. online to match a 3-5 UGTO or ICC ship. If that is not balance what is. If anyone has a good ratio pls. do. but i think its 3-1 ratio. If a 10 UGTO attacks.. the 10 kluth should just sit back and relax watch the show as there ass being kick.
Okay cut the crap.
If you don't want kluth.. everyone should be playing UGTO now. I suggest ICC do the same and play UGTO.. ALL should be playing UGTO in their EAD. awts .. did i just kill the game. LOL.
Seriously, improve the cloaking of kluth if this is intended to be there powerful weapon. What ever the reason other faction says that it is overpowered, the point is, no Kluth ship can do 1 on 1 and its supposed to escape a very difficult situation. IF you want to HUNT it, have a BEACON ready. or you dont want Beacon as it's take space of other weapons.
also, Kluth ship suffer from energy drain, he can't spacebar forever and fire everything, he has to leave something for cloak. which means either he's going for a kill and hoping the other players hit his other teamates and not him and escape or sacrifice himself for the greater good.
Cloak weakness
1) Cloaking Delay
2) Pinging
3) Beacon
4) Energy Drain
never seen a powerful weapon with to many weakness .. Peace
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mannythepogs
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 140
From: mbllanes
| Posted: 2009-02-07 04:57
Let me add the 5th weakness
we can still see the location of a ship by Observe Mode, it will not see your actual ship but it will fairly show your location in general, if your moving into position, the other using it will see that they are near. It an abuse, but how can you know one is that using it.
Other can use it, kluth, ICC, UGTO can use it, but the one greatly affected by it are the cloak ones that dont want to be seen.
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