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Forcing players into smaller ships |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2010-07-14 18:35
Another question: Does the 5-10 second countdown include turning?
And I think it would be good to keep e-jump, but make it break the drive like it did in the old days.
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2010-07-14 18:43
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On 2010-07-14 18:35, MrSparkle wrote:
Another question: Does the 5-10 second countdown include turning?
And I think it would be good to keep e-jump, but make it break the drive like it did in the old days.
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Maybe have a much longer cooldown for E-jumps
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2010-07-14 20:59
I remember a time when your ship had to come to a complete stop to jump to a target - be it a planet or otherwise. You could E-Jump but you took drive damage proportional to your %age of speed... IE: At 50% max speed, you took 50% drive damage, at 100% max speed you took 100% drive damage - and the drive was inoperable unless fully repaired.
What about bringing that back?
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-07-14 22:15
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On 2010-07-14 20:59, Coeus {NCX-Charger} wrote:
I remember a time when your ship had to come to a complete stop to jump to a target - be it a planet or otherwise. You could E-Jump but you took drive damage proportional to your %age of speed... IE: At 50% max speed, you took 50% drive damage, at 100% max speed you took 100% drive damage - and the drive was inoperable unless fully repaired.
What about bringing that back?
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Would make people more hesitant to use dreads because harder to escape, that is probably your point
but
small ships with high speed would have to come to a complete stop to jump, and since small ships rely on speed and agility for damage avoidance, small ships would get hit pretty hard
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Kenny_Naboo
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Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-15 01:32
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On 2010-07-14 22:15, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
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On 2010-07-14 20:59, Coeus {NCX-Charger} wrote:
I remember a time when your ship had to come to a complete stop to jump to a target - be it a planet or otherwise. You could E-Jump but you took drive damage proportional to your %age of speed... IE: At 50% max speed, you took 50% drive damage, at 100% max speed you took 100% drive damage - and the drive was inoperable unless fully repaired.
What about bringing that back?
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Would make people more hesitant to use dreads because harder to escape, that is probably your point
but
small ships with high speed would have to come to a complete stop to jump, and since small ships rely on speed and agility for damage avoidance, small ships would get hit pretty hard
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I think his idea is good. If it discourage dread-station spammage, then +1
Besides, small ships should be able to jink n dodge incoming fire. Plus, they should know when to stop attacking after taking sufficient damage.
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Great Budda
Fleet Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: January 01, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Omaha, NE
| Posted: 2010-07-15 01:50
Kenny I think the point was that smaller ships will become vulnerable to the same issues that larger ships would. They would have to stop to jump or E-jump and damage their drives so their chance of escape are narrowed as much as that of a larger ship. Because it has less armor/shield than a larger ship it is more likely to be destroyed. The saving grace for the smaller ship is it has a shorter cool down allowing for it to jump again quicker to avoid destruction.
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Kenny_Naboo
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Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-15 02:03
What I meant was... instead of executing a jump in the midst of battle, a small ship should be able to jink and dodge his way out of the immediate battle area, then execute a jump.
Otherwise, just e-jump and take the damage, and where you exit jump continue running at max speed while repairing the drive. Small ship internal repairs are usually quite quick in comparison to the heavies.
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Starcommander
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Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-07-15 03:32
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On 2010-07-15 02:03, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
What I meant was... instead of executing a jump in the midst of battle, a small ship should be able to jink and dodge his way out of the immediate battle area, then execute a jump.
Otherwise, just e-jump and take the damage, and where you exit jump continue running at max speed while repairing the drive. Small ship internal repairs are usually quite quick in comparison to the heavies.
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Kluth have fast system repair even on there dreads. As for the rest of us, system repair is slow, and if your E-jumping out of combat you will have other things to repair as well.
I remember those days when E-jumping did force damage on your JD, as well as just flat out taking damage from a fluxx cannon to the JD. You were lucky if you could E-jump at all, and, if you got away, the JD needed to be at least 50% repaired before you could use it again. So getting tracked = a dead ship, if you got lucky you could get away. Good memories of attempting to get away in a combat dessy and getting chased down by a gunboat dessy or torpedo cruiser, having to fight to stay alive and hopefully get away again.
This wouldn't effect stations too much, with drones you can fix everything super fast, and fluxx cannons really don't phase you too much.
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-07-15 03:34
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On 2010-07-14 20:59, Coeus {NCX-Charger} wrote:
I remember a time when your ship had to come to a complete stop to jump to a target - be it a planet or otherwise. You could E-Jump but you took drive damage proportional to your %age of speed... IE: At 50% max speed, you took 50% drive damage, at 100% max speed you took 100% drive damage - and the drive was inoperable unless fully repaired.
What about bringing that back?
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I recall this as well. I was quite pleased with it, because it made (trying) hunting down some one worth it.
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On 2010-07-14 22:15, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Would make people more hesitant to use dreads because harder to escape, that is probably your point
but
small ships with high speed would have to come to a complete stop to jump, and since small ships rely on speed and agility for damage avoidance, small ships would get hit pretty hard
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True,
But let`s assume that the jump drive will have a 5~10 sec charge up time and during that charge up time your ships steering is locked and will remain lined up for the jump location.
Pair this with a jump drive charge animation and sound and if the smaller ship player/pilot is alert enough, he might spot it on time and steer away from the jump path, trying to increase the distance as much as possible. The greater the distance, the greater their speed and maneuverability will aid in their defense again. Smaller ships will become less likely to get jumped and their high speed and maneuverability can greatly aid in dodging point jump attempts.
With point jump becoming less accurate it will also become less desirable to use it on small fast ships as is simply is less effective against them.
This will also change the need for using e-jump as well, thus making the damage more acceptable take by an e-jump at high speed.
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On 2010-07-15 02:03, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
What I meant was... instead of executing a jump in the midst of battle, a small ship should be able to jink and dodge his way out of the immediate battle area, then execute a jump.
Otherwise, just e-jump and take the damage, and where you exit jump continue running at max speed while repairing the drive. Small ship internal repairs are usually quite quick in comparison to the heavies.
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True, but this isn’t possible with the current way the jump drive works and how accurate point jumps can be done with it.
One of the reasons I hope Faustus will consider changing the jump drive and the way it can perform accurate point jumps. The 5~10 second jump drive charge up time paired with a visual animation would be a good start.
[ This Message was edited by: Wild Cat on 2010-07-15 03:37 ]
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2010-07-15 11:06
give it a WH looking effect....visible as long as you are visible.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-07-15 11:22
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On 2010-07-14 20:59, Coeus {NCX-Charger} wrote:
I remember a time when your ship had to come to a complete stop to jump to a target - be it a planet or otherwise. You could E-Jump but you took drive damage proportional to your %age of speed... IE: At 50% max speed, you took 50% drive damage, at 100% max speed you took 100% drive damage - and the drive was inoperable unless fully repaired.
What about bringing that back?
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I think (my memory can be quite bad) we didn't have interdictor ships back then. If we had to come to a complete stop before jumping, interdictor ships would become quite powerful.
I see no reason why we can't make a calculated jump while moving (assuming all jumps besides e-jumps are "calculated" by your navigation crew or computers). E-jumps aren't calculated and I don't mind the fact that perhaps they break the drive.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-07-15 15:01
@kenny a small ship can't always jink and dodge, and by jinking and dodging you cant jump, if you stop for jump you cant jink and dodge
@wild cat a small ship to get away from a dread jumping at it would require it to go max speed, thus again can't jump
and if a dread jumps you from outside visual range, such as the last people to jump to your planet during a planetary attack, you will not be able to see them and you will not be able to press shift+j unless you are standing still
This is a good idea, just needs refining
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-07-16 09:06
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On 2010-07-15 15:01, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
@wild cat a small ship to get away from a dread jumping at it would require it to go max speed, thus again can't jump
and if a dread jumps you from outside visual range, such as the last people to jump to your planet during a planetary attack, you will not be able to see them and you will not be able to press shift+j unless you are standing still
This is a good idea, just needs refining
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Not quite sure where the need to be at a complete stop to jump got mixed into the idea, but it`s not needed and would make it too harsh.
Losing your flight control to the auto pilot for 5~10 seconds charge up, plus jump travel time (for long distance jumps) should suffice. And on top of that recently your current speed will affect the distance you will arrive away from your target (30 * ship speed)
So a dread at max speed (15gu?) attempting to jump a moving scout from a great distance (say 3 seconds jump travel time), will have to take in account that he will arrive 450gu away from its desired target location, 5~10 seconds charge up time and several seconds of jump flight time.
Predicting where the scout will be over 8~13 seconds time is everything but easy.
E-Jump could very well remain the same as it is now, for I doubt it can be used to work around the charge up delay. Manually stopping a ship mid jump and arriving where you want to be is almost impossible.
And would people manage to do it, e-jump drive damage or have all ship energy drained on arrival would effectively discourage it to be used offensively. Never the less, e-jump causing drive damage has a nice ring to it, for I liked it a lot back when it was used.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-07-17 08:56
what about e-jumps breaking the drive, but the jump itself get more random ?
a normal jump have to be calculated and the exit-point is very accurate ( maybe only 200gu of the target)
but e-jump isnt. the ship just jump into that general facing direction.if you imagine a exit-point, the ship would be something like 1500-2000k off that point after a full e-jump
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Marius Falix
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 05, 2010
Posts: 268
From: Luyten
| Posted: 2010-07-25 08:16
Just had a Thought.
if smaller ships become more effective how will we stop the lowbies (low ranks) from going lone wolf style and killing the team?
because when i was starting, i recognized my combats werent all that effective and got most my rank from supp ships, building plats etc
ya know, helping the team.
i realise not everyone will think like this, but clearly itl influence how the game is played and the willingness for the team to play, coz usually the lowbies are used as supp's or tranny's
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