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I may be removing ship modding... |
Hybok
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 28, 2004
Posts: 121
|  Posted: 2005-07-22 06:27
After thinking about it for a while i like the only one resource thing.
Jims ideas are also good ones to put in.
Someone earlier also said something about modding parts in orbit instead of building them and buying them.(can't remember who said that)
Like most other people think it would be nice to have grouping back as it helped many people and should still help people.
As for the resources lost change i like ent's idea for the pres loss based on ship dieing or SDing.(previos post of ents)
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-07-22 07:24
If part of the problem is some players not wanting to spend time modding, simply allow players to buy and sell pre-built ships in the ship selection screen. Those that want to buy could get their hands on a decent ship quickly and those that sell could make a name for themselves as good builders, as well as making a profit.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-22 09:59
*bump for starluck*
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ReZ
Vice Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 59
From: Eh?
| Posted: 2005-07-22 13:07
Its funny, i was reading mask's post about the lack of subscribers and the bad timing and the whining..
What got me was he was right about the whining.
99.99% of the time, all i hear from the vets is just that, whining. The new people who go on the lobby and ask questions generally get to see this first hand, and their hestitent on playing the game.
In fact, i've even seen some vets discourage play of this game, in the lobby.
Now while that is besides the topic, this is on the topic.
What i see when i see the whining is "Bring back 480, it never lagged, everything was good, blah blah blah blah BLAH!"
Now that faustus has suggested a type of rollback, most of you are saying "that will ruin ds, that will make it unplayable.. blah blah blah blah BLAH"
So Faustus, since i already gave an opinion on your suggestion (thumbs up) and you do decide to do something about it, then do it.. Those who have posted suggestions, instead of negativity should have a lookover to see if what they say is plausiable.
Because needless to say, there will always be crying, and this time it will be "Bring 483 back, the lag wasnt sooo bad, i liked leveling, blah blah blah blah BLAH"
Its your call.
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Ramius
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 12, 2002
Posts: 894
From: Ramius
| Posted: 2005-07-22 13:16
Jimmy ftw.
<3 teh starluck
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Dr Evil
Cadet
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 930
From: *** CLASSIFIED ***
| Posted: 2005-07-22 14:56
Nice to see DS returning to its former glory, you're finally returning to your roots, well done Faustus 
When you originally proposed to put in a modding system, there were several of us on the admin staff that were very against it simply because we knew it was going to break instantly all the previous game balance and over complicate the game. The enhanced resource system just made the game even more tedious and much less enjoyable. You make it fun again, and the players will return and we'll have those good old day player totals like we used to.
My suggestions:
1) Go back and put some purpose back into the old badge system, it gave players something to work towards and learn each and every aspect of the game.
2) Flesh out more ship variants and use the badge reqs just like the good old days.
3) Give the dreads and stations teeth (small weapons that can track and hit fast movers) so DS isn't HC/AC space like it was for so long, give players a reason to want to fly one other then to SD on someone else.
4) Bring back the instant action scenario servers in all their glory.
5) Come full circle, return to your roots and all that was good in DS
-Dr Evil
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ReZ
Vice Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 59
From: Eh?
| Posted: 2005-07-22 15:06
Quote:
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On 2005-07-22 14:56, Dr Evil wrote:
Nice to see DS returning to its former glory, you're finally returning to your roots, well done Faustus
When you originally proposed to put in a modding system, there were several of us on the admin staff that were very against it simply because we knew it was going to break instantly all the previous game balance and over complicate the game. The enhanced resource system just made the game even more tedious and much less enjoyable. You make it fun again, and the players will return and we'll have those good old day player totals like we used to.
My suggestions:
1) Go back and put some purpose back into the old badge system, it gave players something to work towards and learn each and every aspect of the game.
2) Flesh out more ship variants and use the badge reqs just like the good old days.
3) Give the dreads and stations teeth (small weapons that can track and hit fast movers) so DS isn't HC/AC space like it was for so long, give players a reason to want to fly one other then to SD on someone else.
4) Bring back the instant action scenario servers in all their glory.
5) Come full circle, return to your roots and all that was good in DS
-Dr Evil
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amen
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Diabo|ik
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2002
Posts: 327
From: Quebec, Canada
| Posted: 2005-07-22 15:11
Jim Quote : "I have one final suggestion, that will go a VERY long way to avoiding players screaming because their custom-built ships got destroyed.
When a player has modified a ship and placed it in their storage, allow them to also save the design of the ship. That way, if the one they modded gets blown up, they can go to a Shipyard and select that design like they would a default ship, and BAM! They've got a ship identical to the one they lost, with zero time wasted on modding. That alone will cut down on whining by orders of magnitude.
Place a limit on the number of designs they can store, just like how many components or actual ships they can place in their storage. If they want to change something, let them "update" that ship design. Heck, you could probably let them design a ship entirely within the storage screen if you wanted. Just so long as they only have to do it once. "
Truer words have never been spoken, I love you.
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chris aka sunshine
Cadet
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1649
From: Germany
| Posted: 2005-07-22 15:12
no more to say, excepts it sounds like "original Darkspace" that i've enjoyed for many years - as many others did!
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Christian 'sunshine' Weyand
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-Viper-
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 55
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-07-22 15:18
It's good that the resource/pres loss is going.
How about making it so you only have a set amount of "upgrade" points per ship? E.g. you can spend them all in weapons/offensive power, defence/armor, or in special abilities such as cloak, or evenly?
This way you can't have all ships pimped out with everything on max level. The different factions would be able to enhance their racial quality, such as kluth would prefer to go all offence while ICC will probably mostly go for defence.
Don't remove it totaly, just give it some divercity, let people specialize
As for building parts and modding them, I dont even bother with that anymore....
Also yea the instant action servers need to come back
[ This Message was edited by: -Viper- on 2005-07-22 15:29 ]
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2005-07-22 16:02
Quote:
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On 2005-07-22 15:18, -Viper- wrote:
It's good that the resource/pres loss is going.
How about making it so you only have a set amount of "upgrade" points per ship? E.g. you can spend them all in weapons/offensive power, defence/armor, or in special abilities such as cloak, or evenly?
This way you can't have all ships pimped out with everything on max level. The different factions would be able to enhance their racial quality, such as kluth would prefer to go all offence while ICC will probably mostly go for defence.
Don't remove it totaly, just give it some divercity, let people specialize
As for building parts and modding them, I dont even bother with that anymore....
Also yea the instant action servers need to come back
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this is another interesant idea ...
also it can be in minor affected by RANK, MEDALS, SHIP CLASS and SHIP TYPE ... (just a bit but still worth)
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Legatus Immolation
Marshal
Joined: December 20, 2004
Posts: 384
| Posted: 2005-07-22 16:34
im gona have to go with F on this 1 but i wouldnt completely banish modding... would make it simpler 10fold.... if u get my drift?
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Dr Evil
Cadet
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 930
From: *** CLASSIFIED ***
| Posted: 2005-07-22 16:38
The pres/res loss stats for losing ships needs to stay, there needs to be a check and balance for resources lost in game. The pres loss calc back in 1.37 was perfect, you got punished for dumping ship after ship into the fray and squandering your side's resources by ranking up slower then everyone else, IE. your typical space bar mashing, drive straight into the furball at full speed regardless of what's in there mentality.
If you remove it, there is no longer any risk of punishment for losing a ship, it'll be suicidefest all over again. This occured when the res loss reduction was put into effect and there wasn't much of a hit to the pres, and it was nothing short of stupidity in action.
Stupidity needs to be painful, not rewarded.
-Dr Evil
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-22 16:43
Quote:
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On 2005-07-22 16:38, Dr Evil wrote:
The pres/res loss stats for losing ships needs to stay, there needs to be a check and balance for resources lost in game. The pres loss calc back in 1.37 was perfect, you got punished for dumping ship after ship into the fray and squandering your side's resources by ranking up slower then everyone else, IE. your typical space bar mashing, drive straight into the furball at full speed regardless of what's in there mentality.
If you remove it, there is no longer any risk of punishment for losing a ship, it'll be suicidefest all over again. This occured when the res loss reduction was put into effect and there wasn't much of a hit to the pres, and it was nothing short of stupidity in action.
Stupidity needs to be painful, not rewarded.
-Dr Evil
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A-freaking-men
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-07-22 18:53
Keep modding..but please keep it simple. We don't need more variables which can undoubtly unbalence the game even more...
I myself...the upgrade system is thourghly bad idea...
I would still perfer to weapons automatically scale towards the ship its placed on, so as to prevent scouts with fubar armor or dessies with more punch than Dreadnoughts...
When changing the loudouts (this needs, I dont care what is said now, it NEEDs to be tweaked, somethings make literally no sense whatsoever) something need to be beared in mind.
Modding, is supposed to be alternative choices not to get an uber ship. Essentially, different weapons have different applications, but in terms of damage/recharge/ammount, it all should balence evenly...
For example, PCMs should be slowmoving, high damage, long recharge, inaccurate, long range missles.
While on the other hand, AR missles should be fast moving, low damage, quick recharage, VERY accurate, short range missles.
Thats just an example though (I wouldent allow PCMs to be switched with anything like that  )
The slots would of course need to be different. Ships would be designed for their intentention in mind.
Simply put, Missle Cruisers will be MIssle Cruisers, Torpedo Cruisers will be Torpedo Cruisers.
The way to keep this intact, is to restrict modding, obviously.
Gain/Loss statistics are only examples, bear this in mind.
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Drives - AFE/AME/PFE/IE - For every higher class, drives gain 10% more power capacity/ regen. However 10% less acceleration/top speed.
Jump Drive - AMJD/JD -Keep current scale, however, I believe larger ships should travel farther than small ones.
Adv. Jump Drive - WHI/WHII/Hypermass Accelerator. - WH Distance should be shortened while HMA should be increased, IMO.
Special I - ECCM/ECM/Scanner/Beacon - Make the effects of ECCM/ECM more dramatic and useful. Allow scanners to "ping" fpr all enemy ships in range, excluding cloaked ships. Beacons should be moved back to Special I. Additionally, smaller ships should always have better Sensors than larger ones.
Special II - Flux Wave/Pulse Wave Faction Specific - Make the Pulse Wave effective all weapons fire, but works randomly against torpedos/cannons/. Flux Wave should hence be more effective against shields while having little, if any effect on armor/hull.
Reserves Slot - Auxillary Power Generator/Auxillary Shield Generator Faction Specific - The effectiveness of these 2 devices should be scaled on hull type, essentially for every higher class, it should gain 15% more capacity/regen or in the case of the Shield, HP/Regen/Power Drain.
Missles Slot - IT/AR/Psi/Shredder/Sabot - In this slot, only missles can be mounted, all depending on your style of play, no one misssle should be better than another, unless the missle is mounted on a larger ship. Missles that are accurate (AR/Shredder), should almost always hit their target. Missles that are not (IT/Psi) should only be able to hit cruisers and above. Sabot is a special exception, powerful, unguidied, yet fast enough to hit a cruiser.
Heavy Missles Slot - PCM/PSM - Here you have your heavy missle, the PCM, it should be slow moving, very destructive, and inaccurate to anything smaller than a Dreadnought. Low ammot count, very long range, high recharge rates all apply. The PSM is an optional switch-out for ridding small defenceless planets in seconds. They should of course, be powerful, if they hit.
Turret Slot - Particle Cannon/Railgun/Psi Cannon/EMP Cannon - Each of these is unique to the faction who makes it, they all have pros and cons, depending on the job you want it to get done. Particle Cannons are average in all aspects, except for energy drain, which should be suprisingly lower than any other. Railguns should be the fastest, longest ranged cannons, they gain power the longer their in flight. They gain speed by momentum, thus speed up quite quickly at longer ranges, and can do double damage at max range.
Psi Cannons are the shortest ranged, slowest moving of them all, they also, have the highest energy drain. The difference here however, that Psi Cannons do the most damage, because while particles and railguns fire 3 or 4 shots per round, Psi Cannons on larger ships should go as high as 6 shots per round.
Of course, cannons would be scaled on class, and the bigger the class, the slower and more powerful the weapons are.
EMP cannons should do the most shields damage, however, they should do little, if any damage to armor or hull.
Main Gun Slot - ICC Gauss Cannon/(add UGTO Artillery Siege Cannon, K'luth Long Range Psi Bombardment Cannon) - Adding those 2, all factions effectively gain access to weapons that are not of the core value, but are useful.
Eseentially, all combat-oriented ships of the Dreadnought/Station class gain access to one of these choices. Essentially, a "main gun" they can be used at long ranges to fire single, slow moving rounds, capable of immense damage. Small ships should easily dodge such a weapon, and even frigates and scouts should be able to survive a hit.
Basically, any ship with a main gun, only has one. It should have, at best, 5 rounds, non-reloadable by supply, only by planets (orbitting), they should take an immense energy drain to use. The ship must also be at a standstill to use it. IT would not be bound to the Alpha key.
The ICC Gauss Cannon should shoot the farthest (up to 5k gu), but can only be shot if the target is above 2k gu in range, it should be able to do the most damage to armor, with small hull damage, and average energy drain. The shot would move the fastest of all factions, around 100gu/sec.
The UGTO ASC, should be the average of the lot, ranging up to 3k gu, the target must be within 1kgu to fire. It has the lowest energy drain of all the factions, and moves at staple 60gu/sec.
The Kluth LRPBC should do the most damage of all, with the shortest range, highest energy drain, it should reach around 2.5k gu, and move at a 50gu/sec pace.
==(note, if that would not be implemented, the Guass cannon would be moved with the turrets)==
Torpedo Slot - Proton/Fusion/Antimatter. - Torpedos should be the hard hitters, they should move relatively slowly for larger ships weapons, however, smaller ships have faster, less energy draining ones. Sticking to the old way of torpedos, they should be non tracking, I also believe that Torpedos should cause system damage, especially Anti-Matter ones.
Proton would be average, Fusion would obviously be longest range/least power, Anti-Matter would be shortest range/most damage.
Laser Slot I - Disruptor/SCL/Flux Cannon/ELF Faction Specific.- Simple here, these are the lasers of the game, the light ones that is. Disrutors would do the most damage at any range, but should also have the shortest range of the lasers, and the highest energy drain, however, with a fast recharge.
SCLs would do the highest damage in this slot at close range, as high as 200% stronger than the Disruptor at point blank range. However, beyond half its max range, its effectiveness is twice as weak as the disruptor.
Flux Cannons should do massive shield/organic armor damage, but little damage normal armor/hull, and has the potential for massive system damage.
ELF I want to put here too, because I have an idea to balence it. When you fire an ELF at an enemy ship, it will only drain what the ship needs. anything beyond that and the ELF stops draining, basically, youll only get power if you need it,otherwise, its useless.
When the ELF conctas a friendly target, thats targeted, you transfer the energy from your own banks till their full or you run out. If you accidentally hit someone on your team with ELF cause their in the way, it does nothing.
Laser Slot II - HCL/Assault Disruptor. Faction Specific - Simply enough, the HCL should do massive dammage up close, again, as high as 200% stronger than the DA. However, at any range, the DA should do quite a bit of damage over time. DAs fire longer and deal more damage for a higher recharge/ energy drain. HCLs have less energy drain, but it does "burst damage".
Fighter Slot - All Fighters Faction Specific - Since fighters are a tedious subject...I suggest this. UGTO Assault Fighters should fire cannons and torpedos.. ICC fighters, should fire sabots and missles. Kluth should fire disruptors strictly. This would allow some variety, as all have their strong points. ICC would be especially deadly in swarms, along with UGTO, but a flight of Kluth fighters would deal massive damage to any ship, more than ICC or UGTO.
Mine Slot - All Mines Faction Specific. - Mines should be more powerful, thats about as simple as it gets. If you hit them, they WILL hurt. Each factions mines has its own epecialty. EMP mines should rip apart armor and shields, and nuke all systems.. ICC Nuke mines, obviously the best, should shred armor and hull. Anti-Matter mines should have the highest area of effect, and do massive hull armor damge.
Armor/Shield S;pt - Standard Armor/ Ablative Armor/ Reflective Armor/ Organic Armor/ Reactive Shields/ Active Shields Faction Specific.
Amor...it keeps us alive no? None is more true here. Standard Armor is best all around, and should come with all ships..well...standard that are not Kluth. Organic is like standard, however, having less off it, it should repair, IMO, quicker than it does now.
Reflective Armor should be boosted against lasers, while suffering even more from cannons. Ablative, IMO, should be resistant to all forms of damage except torpedos, and should repair at half the rate of StD armor on its own.
Shields...should be stronger than armor in all aspects, but only if there is energy to maintain it. Smaller ships would have obviously weaker shields than larger ones.
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I think that should about do it...(damn thats long o.o)..these are however MY opinions on how slots should be. I obviously left things out like cloak and the interdictor and auto repair, because I dont have enough experience with those to make accurate judgements...but I can form opinions on them...
Interdictors...should only be able to target one ship at a time, basically when they run a dictor, the dictor's power drain is effected by how many ships its holding, the bigger the ship, the harder to hold. An interdictor, at best, could hold 10 scouts, or 8 Frigates, or 6 Destroyers, or 4 Cruisers, or 2 Dreads, or one station.
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Autorepair...should stay like it is. I have no problems with it whatsoever.
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The cloak is a major factor though for K'luth. IMO, as suggested before somewhere (whoever did, credit to them) that beacons only increase the time to cloak.
I also believe, that cloaking should reduce the signature of those around it.
Cloak should also be a -distortion- in space. If you look carefully you can see the light bend that is. Beyond that, the cloak should take less power to operate and maintain. Decloak should be instantanious for all Kluth ships. Even stations. However, recloaking should take quite a bit of time, and as you recloak, it takes the energy then. The longer it takes, the more energy it takes.
Beacons also, should be removed by reload.
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Core Weapons - IMO, they should be removed. They really are a waste of time, and for "one hit newb kills"...which in any case rarely one hit. In any case, I feel that they just plague the game more than they should, and should be removed.
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These are my opinions, simply thats all. And also how I would like to see DS.
...*reads* damn thats long...
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2005-07-22 18:59 ]
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