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I may be removing ship modding... |
Quietly confident
Admiral
Joined: June 28, 2005
Posts: 215
From: Luna, Sol.
|  Posted: 2005-07-21 12:45
well modding is inclueded in my surgestion
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-07-21 12:50
As I had emailed F yesterday, ironicly he tells me here instead of replying, if we are going this route, it will take me about a month to come up with a new system and stats.
What I am going to do is what I wanted to do originally and assign each device a "Combat Efficency Value" - CEV, and set a max CEV for each hull type.
Then as I work up different loadouts for the ships, they will beforced to stay at their CEV limit.
This will mean a lot more stock ships because I will have to make variants to account for different play styles.
It will also throw out the need for the economy system.
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2005-07-21 12:51
I...Love...You..Faust.
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2005-07-21 12:54
This troubles me, not that I have alot of say in the direction of the game but but removing the ability to modify ships does indeed reduce the diversity of the game.
Now I for one enjoy using faction tech, and I rarely went outside my faction when modifying however as a kluth, modifying is almost a must. The stock layout of the majority of kluth ships is enough to puzzle most - eccms and tractors and such have rarely had any use on those ships since I started playing way back when.
So when survivability and generaly playability hinges on making a few ship changes so it fits ones play style, how will this generic ship spawn and fight work out? Not to mention some of the nifty little weapons that will be lost because they aren't stock.
In addition, the logic behind getting rid of the resources lost escapes me. It would seemingly fit in easily to a system with only one resource. The resources lost statistic was one of the few things that kept the zergers somewhat in check. I know I will not enjoy a game much it station and station is spawned and sent on a kamikazi run. I lived through that once, and believe me it was enough - I do not wish to revisit that.
If we go back to the old system I hope the ship layouts are going to looked over again....
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- Maskerade
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-07-21 12:58
Cool!!! Then we can make the Metaverse the size of a star system and just duke it out all day LONG!! Cus thatd be just boss!
Oh and then how about give everyone a /death command when they have an enemy ship targeted? Thatd be great!
Sweet, then give every newbie 1k prestige just for learing to click the right button!
Then make large areas in the 1 system MV where we can kill easy prey like gaffiens, so we can feel big about our dime a dozen stock ships with crap weapons that everyone else has but could really care less if they sd on you with there station cus everything theyve workd for is worthless now.
and yeah i know im not being constructive...
no offense Faustus, but are you drunk?
no really, are you?
I know the lag is bad, idiots are whining and this is probably your last big shot at trying to get people to come back. But this aint the way man. even though i stand to gain 40k prestige.. id rather have the ability to think and play tacticly.
If anyting you need to expand what is offerd, and do it through the SY and not the ports.. I can think of a thousand easier ways and setups that have been done in other games that allow people to mod new parts in. Heck give us some kind of interface like that of MechWarrior.. that was a good way to customize.
If you want to "dumb" down the game .. make another version of this and call it happy happy kill bot frenzy no skill MV
but i bet you i wont be there.. I dont see the point in staying if thats what this is comming to. Good luck in your decission, and your right game play will change. Over and over again ive learnd my suggestions dont add up to a hill of beans anyways.
-Char Aznable
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-07-21 13:08
Without reading many of the replies (got about 1/3 of the way through backy's post), I just HAVE to speak my mind on this issue.
The modding of ships may have been a little unbalancing, but no where NEAR as unbalancing as the levels. Especially with the massively reduced prices of upgrading, and here is why I think that.
Everyone has level 10 armor/active shields/organic armor. Only dreads can equip more than level 6 weapons. Bottom line, the only way to get through the armor of even a destroyer (even WITH the hull modifiers to the armor) is to constantly pound a ship with superior firepower.
I had a feeling that beta was going this way, but I decided to see how it played out in release and it just isn't doing well IMO.
One of the best things about the previous versions that I've played (1.480 - 1.482... so yeah I'm not as "old fartknocker" as some other players ^.^) was that every shot mattered. You could unload shot after shot after shot into an EAD - and ya know what, IT HURT! But not nearly as much as it did if you strayed too close to that EAD.
I guess what I'm saying is that the entire system the way it is now is contributing to the game just not being fun anymore. Most of the players are to blame for this, myself included, because we didn't take the time that was needed to beta test the gameplay.
We need to go back to a time where EVERY ship had a use, from dreads & cruisers to destroyers & frigates and even a scout or two here & there. Modding a ship has always been the most enjoyable part of the game to me. Finding a combination that I just loved, even when it was extremely close to stock with just a few tweaks (read - Assault Cruiser with actives AMEs a CL2k and a reactor).
Those were the most fun times to me - when I could take a ship into combat and KNOW that I could have an effect - NOT when I take a ship into combat and unload an entire Battle Cruiser's ammo onto 2 or 3 destroyers and barely make a dent. When I was actually afraid of being surrounded by more than 2 or 3 enemies, but could still fight them off and make a dent in them!
Its not the different ships that people are modding, its the ships that people are upgrading that is just making this not fun. Having people fly stock mods will just exasperate the matter in my opinion (especially for ships equipped with missiles, save the ICC MD which is only effective if the enemy is distracted). Look at the game now - you find that the only faction you can do damage to is the K'Luth because of their low armor counts, which is as it should be because when you're done exchanging barrages you don't know where the next attack will come from - but it probably won't come at all because they luth can't dent you with anything less than superior numbers.
Thats what the game has been reduced to - who has the most level 10 dreadnaughts wins. Its that simple.
Want to make the game fun again? ditch the levels, keep the modding. I'd love to see ships return to 482 status with the modifications that make the game less bland (new cloak, faction only builds, planets to be feared for an un-upgraded ship).
My thoughts on it all.
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Darkspace: Twilight
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Photox [F|F|I]
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 27, 2002
Posts: 176
From: Helsinki, Finland
| Posted: 2005-07-21 13:15
I loved the possibility to mod ANY heavy Weapons to Heavy Weapon slots and beams and spec slots etc.
So instead of ripping this ability to specify ships i would, if in position to decide, improve the possibilities to mod different ships, like was in past.
I understand that you want to simplify the economy system and take the lag under control, but this isnt the way.
I, personally MISS the times when ships had lots of variations depending the players likings and SKILLS!!
Skilled player modded ships very differently than not so skilled and players also got specialicided to certain tacticts and gamings styles. And you learned to know them as opponent, that was great!!
Keep the modding and even if it takes litle more time to balance out increase tohe options to mod, same slots for mines etc. I know there is the lag prob in mines... but i miss them.
Your game but keep it fun for us!!
LS
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GothThug {C?}
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 29, 2005
Posts: 2932
| Posted: 2005-07-21 13:17
and i loved it when we (kluth) had the ability to use CL2k's and h00man factions weapons, now that its been "outlawed" so to speak we havent had many advantages and right now im sick of the QST and its HUGE splash damage radius anyways, Nerf back the qst or you're gonna have alot of players leave 
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Sardaukar
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 1656
| Posted: 2005-07-21 13:25
I love this whole idea.
Just one thing- if we have one generic resource type, how will you make individual planets tacticaly diverse?
And Tael... I will wax your ship's hull for a week if you make a ship armed to the teeth with SABOT's. And not the rinky dink SABOT's I hear about these days... the old ones I knew and loved... unguided monsters.
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ReZ
Vice Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 59
From: Eh?
| Posted: 2005-07-21 13:28
I've read alot of views on this idea.. Faust, i like it.. i like it alot. But i also see the other side of things. i like the suggestion on instead of upgrading, change the system to [light, medium, heavy] weapon slots and so forth..
Generally though, i agree wholeheartedly on your suggestion.. Darkspace was/is combat orientated.. It allowed pretty much everyone to hop on, join battlegroups and have fun. I dont think anyone would have much of an issue with that.
Oh... and the deathstar will be completed on schedule..
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-07-21 13:28
Quote:
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On 2005-07-21 12:50, Tael wrote:
As I had emailed F yesterday, ironicly he tells me here instead of replying, if we are going this route, it will take me about a month to come up with a new system and stats.
What I am going to do is what I wanted to do originally and assign each device a "Combat Efficency Value" - CEV, and set a max CEV for each hull type.
Then as I work up different loadouts for the ships, they will beforced to stay at their CEV limit.
This will mean a lot more stock ships because I will have to make variants to account for different play styles.
It will also throw out the need for the economy system.
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If I may offer a suggestion on where to start with the ship loadouts: 1.480-1.481. Each ship had a role to play there - well except maybe the ICC missiles cruiser & combat dread...
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Darkspace: Twilight
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Deleted
Admiral, I can't read,
Joined:
Posts: 0
| Posted: 2005-07-21 13:56
All sounds perfectly great to me.
But when will the prestige lost for dying be lowered?
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Deleted
Admiral, I can't read,
Joined:
Posts: 0
| Posted: 2005-07-21 13:56
All sounds perfectly great to me.
But when will the prestige lost for dying be lowered?
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-07-21 14:10
Ditching levels is a great idea, because that's what makes the game imbalanced. But ditching modding is bad, because it's important for us to be able to customize ships.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-21 14:49
*Waves the "WRONG DIRECTION!" flag*
Its not the levels that are wrong. Its certain ship classes that benefit more from levels than other.
Usualy ICC, having shilds and armor. Apply some level limits to icc armor on the "problematic" ships aka supps and some dessys.
If this game goes back to 1 cruiser can pawn dreads in a row its not getting better.
[ This Message was edited by: PutEADRearTorpsToFrontPlease on 2005-07-21 14:55 ]
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