| Author |
darkspace 2009 |
Mr Black
Grand Admiral
Palestar
Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 486
From: Gaifenland
|  Posted: 2009-06-12 01:22
1- put MV back on 1 server
It already IS on one server, but I'll have to make a presumption as to exactly what you mean, due to your post not being very specific. I make the assumption that you mean turn the entire MV back into a single map...
What exactly will this achieve, other than creating some serious synchronization and latency issues? It would also nullify all of the work that we have put into the current development cycle for DarkSpace. The layout, as it stands, support the ability for us to theme clusters, and run cluster specific events, without negatively impacting the performance of the rest of the game. We also need to redesign the log in process so that when you do log in initially, you see a single large map, which you can then zoom into sections of (IE the clusters).
DarkSpace is a constant work in progress, and I apologize that we, The Development Team, cannot please everyone, or that we cannot dedicate the time and resources that we would like to working on the game. Development will move slowly because of this; we do not have much choice.
2-eliminate all AI
And return to a stagnant and lifeless universe with less to do? No thanks. The AI are another work in progress, and we will continue to improve them as the development cycle continues. They are not up to scratch right now, but something is better than nothing.
3- keep bomb damage as is
Bomb damage needs another examination with regards to development and balance. They are better than before, but I am not happy with them yet.
4- increase planet defence to past levels
I haven't yet had chance to work specifically on planets, or creating distinctive planet trees for each faction. It's something on the long list of things to do.
5- lose the big ego and listen
Look who's talking. If you think you can do better, go learn programming, development, game design and the other required skills, then offer your services to the development team.
Anyone could do this, but not many have bothered to even try.
Comment
The problem with post's like these is that they a very broad and non-specific, so that other users that are agreeing or disagreeing with them are not necessarily talking about the same idea's as the original poster.
Break your idea's and requests down into smaller and smaller parts, until each section cannot be made any smaller, type all of these little parts out, and THEN post. I would rather have way too much information, than too little. It removes a lot of ambiguity and room for misinterpretation.
[ This Message was edited by: Mr Black on 2009-06-12 01:34 ]
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Nexus01
Cadet
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 35
| Posted: 2009-06-12 03:02
Quote:
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On 2009-06-11 19:51, Sardaukar wrote:
-Snip-
Further, the devs we had were more than willing to dedicate pretty extraordinary spans of time to free development here.
-Snip-
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Hmm, a careful re-read of my post might do you some good.
I said any OTHER developers. I know we have devs who are willing to work for free. I know we used to have even more. But again, as I clearly said, our current developers are not the root problem. Instead, the LACK of a large amount of developers willing to each put a large amount of time into this is the problem. That, by itself, slows production. It also lends itself to what we, as the playerbase, perceive as being ignored. Whether or not we are being COMPLETELY ignored is another matter.
No matter what project you are working on, there will be an ideal number of people to be working. Any more or any less, and efficiency will drop. From what I understand, we are in the range of "less than ideal".
While I personally have some rudimentary programming skills, there are certain things I will do, and certain things I won't. The same is true for any other person - the only thing that is different are the things that that one person will or won't do. Most people will not work for free, but again, the definition of "work" is often different for each person.
So please, Sard, for everyone's sake, don't assume that every post that has the word "problem" in it is attacking the devs/staff/etc. It's really quite arrogant, and shows a certain level of immaturity.
-Edit: Also, out of curiosity, what programming language is DS using?
[ This Message was edited by: Nexus01 on 2009-06-12 03:03 ]
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xTx
Chief Marshal
Joined: September 10, 2005
Posts: 101
From: Canada
| Posted: 2009-06-12 06:16
Mr Black, you say Darkspace is a work in progress, but is it progress when each patch is released the player base drops?
You say your not happy with bomb damage yet and thats fine but whos happiness is more important, yours or the players?
Weak planet defence is one reason many people quit playing, I would think it would be high on the list of things to do.
My comments were very specific, so for you to pretend your not sure what im complaining about is strange.
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Va_Static
Captain
Joined: May 31, 2009
Posts: 4
| Posted: 2009-06-12 07:42
If we restored the original number of players that used to play this game then i guess AI would no longer be needed? In my mind AI is just telling everyone that there are not enough players playing DS?
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Reek Havoc *XO*
Chief Marshal
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 327
From: Philadelphia
| Posted: 2009-06-12 08:28
Quote:
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On 2009-06-12 01:22, Mr Black wrote:
1- put MV back on 1 server
It already IS on one server, but I'll have to make a presumption as to exactly what you mean, due to your post not being very specific. I make the assumption that you mean turn the entire MV back into a single map...
What exactly will this achieve, other than creating some serious synchronization and latency issues? It would also nullify all of the work that we have put into the current development cycle for DarkSpace. The layout, as it stands, support the ability for us to theme clusters, and run cluster specific events, without negatively impacting the performance of the rest of the game. We also need to redesign the log in process so that when you do log in initially, you see a single large map, which you can then zoom into sections of (IE the clusters).
DarkSpace is a constant work in progress, and I apologize that we, The Development Team, cannot please everyone, or that we cannot dedicate the time and resources that we would like to working on the game. Development will move slowly because of this; we do not have much choice.
2-eliminate all AI
And return to a stagnant and lifeless universe with less to do? No thanks. The AI are another work in progress, and we will continue to improve them as the development cycle continues. They are not up to scratch right now, but something is better than nothing.
3- keep bomb damage as is
Bomb damage needs another examination with regards to development and balance. They are better than before, but I am not happy with them yet.
4- increase planet defence to past levels
I haven't yet had chance to work specifically on planets, or creating distinctive planet trees for each faction. It's something on the long list of things to do.
5- lose the big ego and listen
Look who's talking. If you think you can do better, go learn programming, development, game design and the other required skills, then offer your services to the development team.
Anyone could do this, but not many have bothered to even try.
Comment
The problem with post's like these is that they a very broad and non-specific, so that other users that are agreeing or disagreeing with them are not necessarily talking about the same idea's as the original poster.
Break your idea's and requests down into smaller and smaller parts, until each section cannot be made any smaller, type all of these little parts out, and THEN post. I would rather have way too much information, than too little. It removes a lot of ambiguity and room for misinterpretation.
[ This Message was edited by: Mr Black on 2009-06-12 01:34 ]
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Do you actually think the latency issues are gone now? OMG, you really ARE that dense aren't you!
Eliminate the USELESS AI... Or fix them so they are useful and don't interfere with PvP functions like BUILDING. And while on building here, fix that too, it absolutely sucks now not being able to queue builds
Maybe if people actually used bombers instead of stations this would be better... I dunno, I loved bombing, it brought me back to my days in the Navy and now the one ICC ship that was a supremacy bomber and combat machine is reduced to crap... So I agree, it needs to be fixed
Planet Def., dictors and all that are so pooched. Bombing is a piece of cake around any faction planet or cluster. What happen to the days of "Oh crap, I ain't jumping through that cluster, too much def. and dico zones.
Tried plenty of times Draf, e-mail goes unanswered, chat just gets flamed, and posts to the dev log get flamed. Who's got the attitude here now? The commuity makes suggestions and offers to help on a game they love playing and all we get is new features to the game on the same old code rather than fix the inherent problems with the game. Maybe the problem is people don't feel they should pay to play beta, whch for lack of a better term is what the "production" mv has turned into. It was never ready to be released nor is it still IMO.
That's my boil down for you Draf... your turn t listen to the community now. Let me rephrase.... the PAYING community as I myself am a long time subscriber of the game I used to love to play.
-RH
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2009-06-12 08:50
I will first off say that this patch has made the game almost lag free. And thats amasing in my eyes. Ofc there will always be some situations that u get latency, but its not always the games fault.
Secundly the new patch is actuly pretty good compared to the last version. But as always with something new theres always a new problem.
xTx sums up some things that i belive is defenly true. But as Mr. Black said the list is long. So then my question will be, what is beein prioritied. If A) the AI, then most ppl wil get angry coz no one like them. If u say B) game play, i think most ppl will be. WOOT amasing! fix planets and all that!.
The secund problem that ppl are complaining now is that we see no progress, evry day i click on the development log and find out that nothing have changed for months. (appart from the last thing that was added). Is there at all anything goin on? or is all development stoped? Would be alot easier for me, and maybe others to know whats happening.
And this post may be abit flaming in some ways but the easy solution to not let it become a flame post about admins/devs and so on, is just tell the truth, tell him what u gona do with those problems he pointed out and also tell him what your doing now. When we know that then we dont relay need to complain about it do we.
Tommas
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Winters Rapture
Fleet Admiral
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 09, 2007
Posts: 355
| Posted: 2009-06-12 11:07
Quote:
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On 2009-06-12 08:50, Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ] wrote:
And this post may be abit flaming in some ways but the easy solution to not let it become a flame post about admins/devs and so on, is just tell the truth, tell him what u gona do with those problems he pointed out and also tell him what your doing now. When we know that then we dont relay need to complain about it do we.
Tommas
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Very true tommas, One of the bigger issues is communication between the player base, and the dev & admin team. Right now everyone is angry because no one has a clue what anyone else is talking about. I know we have a Dev Log but when things stay the same months on end with it people just stop looking at it and leave things up to their own imagination.
I think if the dev team wants us to stop making hate threads like this, then they should start making [UPDATE] threads, to let us know that the dev team is still alive and working hard on this.
I know that this may be a little hard for an exact % of where everything is, but just an even brief thing of whats going on then or whats giving you a problem. I am not saying make one everyday or anything close like that, But maybe a weakly or by-weekly thing, Just to let us know you are still there and how far you are on things that we are just as interested if not more so then you (we do pay money for it after all).
I think I can already hear the keyboard typing: Well that would just take away time from the dev team for working on things. Well then I offer this, we can keep going the way we are, and more players read threads like this then get depressed and leave, Or we can try a rather easy solution, instead of sitting on our hands. Choice is yours, And I don't think this a very tall order to fill.
[ This Message was edited by: All Under Heaven on 2009-06-12 11:07 ]
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2009-06-12 11:19
Quote:
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On 2009-06-12 08:28, Fatal Reek Havoc *AXO* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-06-12 01:22, Mr Black wrote:
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Do you actually think the latency issues are gone now? OMG, you really ARE that dense aren't you!
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If you look at the devlog you may see a few entries about this
Latency is caused by a high projectile count.
if you look at the beta dev log:
- Implemented heavy primary cannon variants.
- Added fighter variants for primary cannons.
- Reduced general combat effectiveness of all stations
All three of these will lower the projectile count considerably...
He isn't being dense, he has already put through a fix it just hasn't been moved into release yet, and until it is, he has to focus on the other bugs first, when it does release and if it doesn't help the latency, then the attention should be shifted back to it.
[ This Message was edited by: Grand Admiral JBud -Adm- on 2009-06-12 11:21 ]
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Sardaukar
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 1656
| Posted: 2009-06-12 12:25
Quote:
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On 2009-06-12 03:02, Nexus01 wrote:
Hmm, a careful re-read of my post might do you some good.
I said any OTHER developers. I know we have devs who are willing to work for free. I know we used to have even more. But again, as I clearly said, our current developers are not the root problem. Instead, the LACK of a large amount of developers willing to each put a large amount of time into this is the problem. That, by itself, slows production. It also lends itself to what we, as the playerbase, perceive as being ignored. Whether or not we are being COMPLETELY ignored is another matter.
No matter what project you are working on, there will be an ideal number of people to be working. Any more or any less, and efficiency will drop. From what I understand, we are in the range of "less than ideal".
While I personally have some rudimentary programming skills, there are certain things I will do, and certain things I won't. The same is true for any other person - the only thing that is different are the things that that one person will or won't do. Most people will not work for free, but again, the definition of "work" is often different for each person.
So please, Sard, for everyone's sake, don't assume that every post that has the word "problem" in it is attacking the devs/staff/etc. It's really quite arrogant, and shows a certain level of immaturity.
-Edit: Also, out of curiosity, what programming language is DS using?
[ This Message was edited by: Nexus01 on 2009-06-12 03:03 ]
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The way you phrased your statement, however, can be construed as implying that while we have free devs now, and have had them in the past, they generally leave after so much unpaid effort. Further, as a programmer, I'm sure you are familiar with Brook's Law. Given that our problem is time and communication between certain people, that law counts for a lot around here. This is assuming, of course, that we can actually afford hired help.
Therein lies the problem, and if you wish to toss around the words assumption and arrogance, the vices of the community members I'm addressing: The assumption that DS is squandering their subscription fees. Darkspace barely breaks even, if at all, when it comes to costs. You have to spend money to make money, but you still need to have the money in the first place. We're at the narrow end of a very long and ugly cycle of that exchange dying off, from my understanding.
As for just who I am addressing, as you seem to have taken it to be everyone, it is xTx primarily, and any who share his viewpoint in regards to the rest of the staff- you'd have to have read his many other rants to get a better idea of what he's after. His crusades, and this debate he's dug up to strengthen them, are both very old and abused horses. I have shared some of the opinoins he's made in the past, but only because- like these- they are just that: opinions. Not workable detailed suggestions, which is what they seem to be mistaken for by those who want things to just work without exploring the hows, whys, and most importantly, the consequences.*
As for the programming language, one of the chief things to be fluent with is LUA. Further details here.
* = AI are a great example of this. I dislike their current implementation, but I am extremely opposed to their complete removal; They provide an activity to anchor people in the MV when there isn't a fight, and in an ideal world, would rapidly disappear as players arrive to combat those who were biding their time with the AI. People cry for their removal now, but seem to forget how the MV was even deader in the previous version, when the lack of an existing fight meant that new logins had to sit around doing nothing but bombing until someone arrived- and we all know how well that bombing went over with the community.
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Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2009-06-12 13:40
Sard said it so much nicer than I did 
[ This Message was edited by: Rae on 2009-06-12 14:13 ]
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$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2009-06-12 14:20
We meet again, Sard! Brook's Law only relates to a late project; the only way DarkSpace is late is if you take 'late' to be synonymous with 'dead'. Which, in retrospect, isn't that unreasonable of a stance.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-06-12 15:56
See xTx? This is all your fault. You did not explain in detail how they should dot their I's and cross their T's.
Maybe, just as Sard said, since many of these ideas have already been discussed before, they really only need a mention? What else can be said about the playerbases view of AI right now? What else needs to be said about the current server splitup?
And really, the arrogence part is also readily displayed, so you folks have only strengthened his last point in a way.
Lack of information is the biggest reason for this. I agree that DS is just a beta you pay to play. There are some things for unsubbs, but its still just a beta game.
And, frankly, if there are fixxes already made, then wth are they not released yet? If its Faustus' fault, then guess what. Doesn't make it any better. This is what has run people off.
You know, I told a friend about the game, and he looked it up online at home. The next day at work, he told me it looked like an old game, and didn't see anything new being done on it. He asked me if it was actually an old game that people just still haunt, long after the developers walked away. I was tempted to say yes....
Heaven forbid people who pay to play would want issues fixed and to know that the issues are at least being worked on.
Heaven forbid people like me, who log in to see if anything new is being done, who are waiting to give you money again every month when you get off your duffs and do something.
How many players are there like me right now out there? And all we want is a realistically working game.
Waiting to pay for it.
The answer isn't sub and we can fix it. It's give me something worth paying for.
How can I fix that?
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2009-06-12 16:51
Ok. Let me be more specific on one of the points, so the devs can understand exactly what I am getting at.
It regards the first point of this post, the unified server. What I am really looking for is a unified server MAP. I want to see the big picture of the entire MV universe by zooming out far on the nav screen. That was always one of the most attractive things about DS to me. With the new maps and servers, I feel lost. I do not know where things are, or how to get to the ICC territory or the K'Luth territory. I cannot see where the action is, since the nav tabs are cluttered with AI ships and I want to find the human players. Everything different regarding the maps and nav screen from 483 makes me feel lost and confused. I used to be able to look at the nav and see what is going on, where it is, who is there, etc.
The other thing about the map I do not like is you took something that was closer to a scifi fantasy game and turned it into a kind of arcade style game. By this, I mean the map no longer significantly reflects the REAL star maps. Solar systems that are supposed to be near each other are no longer collectively assembled. They are just a few clusters of random star systems picked out of a hat, seemingly, and they are arranged in an arena-type manner, in triangles and stuff.
There, details and specifics. Find a way to keep them on different servers, yet let players zoom out and see the big picture of all servers combined, then return the map to a more realistic layout. Please.
EDIT: Also, I suggested back in the day of beta testing this version that I would like to see Faction identification labels on stars, so we can tell at a glance the faction in control of a red system rather than having to zoom in and check a few planets to figure out the dominant faction. I would still like to see this, and can't imagine it is all that difficult. Just do it like the way you do planets.
And another thing I really dont like is spending 20-30 minutes capturing a pirate planet to have my infantry turn pirate and the planet return to pirate control 10 seconds after the capture. That is VERY not okay, and keeps us from feeling any sense of victory, accomplishment or satisfaction from our work. That MUST go, absolutely.
[ This Message was edited by: Kanman on 2009-06-12 16:55 ]
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-06-12 18:04
Quote:
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On 2009-06-12 14:20, $yTHe {C?} wrote:
We meet again, Sard! Brook's Law only relates to a late project; the only way DarkSpace is late is if you take 'late' to be synonymous with 'dead'. Which, in retrospect, isn't that unreasonable of a stance.
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I'd consider any project to be "late" if it's been in development for more then ...let's go with 6 years.
But since this isn't a "project" where theirs a cut and clear "we stop coding here", one could also argue that Darkspace is only in its infancy.
Semantics.
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2009-06-12 23:50
You guys are forgetting the most important thing, Ban Crim.
How can you let that ass run rampant like he has for the past six years? He's contributed nothing, and has been a pain in the communities side all the time.
I think it's time we finally rid ourselves of him.
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