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Core Weapons |
Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
|  Posted: 2010-05-15 04:04
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On 2010-05-15 03:01, Lonectzn wrote:
It's not a veteran pissing contest anyway (I hope).
Generally, in my experience both using core weapons and having them used against me, they are extremely effective against cruiser and smaller hulls when compared to similar weapons (torps/missiles). Just as it has been pointed out to us that the Krill is not meant to be a long range SI sniper, I don't feel core weapons are meant to be effective small ship bashers.
Now, I think I've set out the reasons I think there's an imbalance. But why do you think they need the speed they have? Against dreads they are impossible - read - impossible to avoid below med range. Meanwhile we have torps, which can still hit well but require a bit of timing and placement. Is it absolutely necessary that cores be guaranteed space-mashing hits at close range? Have we forgotten the days of needing to time your shots and use care?
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-05-15 03:03 ]
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seems like this is a QQ post about how you got owned by a dred in your small ship. anyway i think the reason core weapons have there speed is so they can it those smaller ships. since dreds can killed easly by a pack of smaller ships, since normal cannons and torps are easyly avoided by smaller ships.
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2010-05-15 12:12
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On 2010-05-15 04:04, Fatal Borgie wrote:
... since dreds can killed easly by a pack of smaller ships, since normal cannons and torps are easyly avoided by smaller ships.
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and yet how many times do you see a pack of small ships killing dreads in the mv. DS is about teamwork, 1 ship should not be able to take on an entire swarm of enemy working together.
Do you really enjoy dreadspace, where pressing spacebar prettymuch means a confirmed hit?
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-05-15 15:23
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On 2010-05-15 12:12, doda *EP5* (No Longer Exception...) wrote:
Do you really enjoy dreadspace, where pressing spacebar prettymuch means a confirmed hit?
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How is the one related to the other? Can you say that a Ganglia or a Missle dread will always hit? No. Those are dreads as well and used often enough.
And I have actually seen little ICC sensor scouts ripping huge chunks of hull off of dreads without taking more than a few points of shield damage from direct alphas.
I fly many different ships. I earned every damned one of them. I enjoy flying dreads. I like fighting against dreads. I like killing dreads. I really care if I lose my own if it was in a good fight. I earned the right to play this way by ranking up and learning my ships.
If you cant handle the bigger ships, stay out of range until you learn to fly, or hit the scenarios until you can get your own would be my advice.
But for the record, yes, I do enjoy dreadspace just fine. And stationspace. And cruiserspace. And scoutspace. And trannyspace. And frigatespace. Am I supposed to feel BAD about that? If so, I dont see why. What am I missing?
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Xpli$it
Marshal
Joined: March 06, 2004
Posts: 486
From: Canada
| Posted: 2010-05-15 17:20
Core weapons are currently our only option to defeat smaller ships, and any half assed pilot in a destroyer or scout can easily dodge them. I didn't like core weapons at first, but now I like them. They should stay just the way they are - good job to the staff.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-15 21:16
I can really only ask again - why?
A few posters now have said that they need high speed core weapons, specifically so they can hit small ships. You're saying you need your highest damage weapon to be a small ship basher. Why?
The kind of ships that have several core weapons (ead/siphon/krill/ad) are designed as big ship killers. They're meant to be vulnerable to smaller classes. What you're saying is you need to be doing everything with them, and you're using the core weapons to do it.
I feel you're having trouble getting your head around the idea that a dread designed to take on other dreads should have trouble against a cruiser. These weapons are all put on ships designed to kill big ships - the weapons are meant to be dread killers. They don't need to be that fast.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-05-15 21:37
Big ships are not intended to kill smaller ships easily outside of beam range.
Core weapons will not receive a speed increase.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-15 23:51
Good to hear, but not what I was asking for anyway 
But it's ok, I put my point across and will leave it there.
*mumble mumble grumble* =)
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-16 03:02
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On 2010-05-15 21:37, BackSlash wrote:
Big ships are not intended to kill smaller ships easily outside of beam range.
Core weapons will not receive a speed increase.
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I think what they're asking for is a slight decrease in the core weap speed.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-05-16 03:30
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On 2010-05-15 21:37, BackSlash wrote:
Big ships are not intended to kill smaller ships easily outside of beam range.
Core weapons will not receive a speed increase.
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afaik, smaller ships cant be hit by coreweapons outside beamrange, if the smaller ship knows how to dodge
but sometimes those little scouts fly direct in front of me at 100gu...their mistake
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Fallen |3lood Angel*Kiyoh*
Vice Admiral
Joined: November 29, 2009
Posts: 47
From: Lagrange 4
| Posted: 2010-05-16 06:58
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On 2010-05-13 22:18, Starcommand of ICC wrote:
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On 2010-05-13 01:47, Lonectzn wrote:
Are still too good.
I know they've gone through a couple nerfs, but that has been changed by the sheer number of them that go around and the enhancements available. Look at the krill - with range enhancements it becomes a cloaking long range sniper far outperforming missiles. And in general they really don't have any disadvantages over torps.
Ideally I would drop their speed massively. I'm talking slower than AM torpedoes. This would not change their use against large slow ships, by render them useless against anything small and quick, even at close range. It just makes no sense to have these things own everything.
I should say I'm biased, I always thought they were a terrible idea that basically became a cheap and lazy catch-all weapon. I'd still like to be rid of them altogether.
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Please fill this form out and send it to the nearest "hugger"
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Where do I file this?
sorry for it being so big, im still figuring out photobucket
[ This Message was edited by: Kiyoh of the Rain*Rogue* on 2010-05-16 07:03 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-05-16 07:54
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On 2010-05-13 01:47, Lonectzn wrote:
Are still too good.
I know they've gone through a couple nerfs, but that has been changed by the sheer number of them that go around and the enhancements available. Look at the krill - with range enhancements it becomes a cloaking long range sniper far outperforming missiles. And in general they really don't have any disadvantages over torps.
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They arent torps. They arent missles. Why should missles and torps be the gauge against what their capabilities are? They are CORE WEAPONS, MEANT to be different from either of those weapons. Your comparison is therefore offbase. They are also meant to be heavier damage weapons, thus they are jammed on the bigger ships.
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Ideally I would drop their speed massively. I'm talking slower than AM torpedoes. This would not change their use against large slow ships, by render them useless against anything small and quick, even at close range. It just makes no sense to have these things own everything.
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AM torps?!?! lol. This would make them as useless as am torps. You are wrong in thinking they can own a small ship that has speed and enough distance to be out of beam range. Also, anything with core weapons has a slower jump drive recharge than any of the smaller ships. Therefore hopping a distance away, turning and using missles or cannons is an effective tactic vs a core weapon ship. Furthermore, this just seems like some bullcrap way of getting yet another nerf to the Krill.
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I should say I'm biased, I always thought they were a terrible idea that basically became a cheap and lazy catch-all weapon. I'd still like to be rid of them altogether.
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If they were a catch-all weapon they would be on every ship. You act as though the players dreamed them up, designed them, stick them on any ship they want, and then fly around invincible. You are correct about your own bias, but Im afraid that is the most accurate statement in your entire post.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-05-16 08:09
Torpedos were made to be anti-dread/anti-station weapons, core weps came later and (as az said) are on only a select few ships.
@az
No one would be crying about the krill if the other 2 factions had ships (dreads) of the same layout as it.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-05-16 08:57
Personally, I cant stand the idea that all three factions should have the same layouts, ships, roles, etc. In the last 6 years I have seen the factions become nothing but carbon copies of one another. To me, this has stolen a lot of the appeal of the game.
Instead of a Krill type ship, why not something else that is unique to the other two factions?
I also believe that many people have an opinion of the ship based on what they see very experienced pilots do with it. That would happen no matter what ship we have.
Ive personally had people tell me that the Ultimate Worker was too op because of how I have used it. That was before its recent changes, tho. But my point is, its really NOT the ship. Its how its used, and by whom its used most of the time.
When I first started this game, Kluth had the best smaller ships in the game, and only 3 dreads. That fit into their scheme of hit and run. ICC was truly more a defensive faction, and their AC was the best ship in the game in capable hands. UGTO were the brawlers bringing in their powerful pound u into dust dreads. What do we have now? Kluth in dreads, ICC in dreads, UGTO in dreads. Parody reins supreme and stiffles all.
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2010-05-16 09:01 ]
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-16 09:21
This argument falls into the same old better vs different debate that has been the base of many an issue over the years. For many (and perhaps even still the devs) it's seen as a game of upgrades - that you get a bigger ship and by right of rank it must take x smaller ships to kill you.
I'd rather a game where the ships and weapons have specific roles, and are designed with this in mind. Right now a dread designed for dread killing wipes the floor with a cruiser designed to kill big ships. Is this reasonable? Yes if you think dreads are meant to always be the best, no if you are want balanced classes.
Now as I said you can say anything you like, oh this can be evaded in this situation - whatever, it's irrelevant. The imbalance is borne out in the popularity of the larger ships, the sheer number that fly them in preference to what are seen as the less effective smaller classes. Sure there are always exceptions but the bias is undeniable.
I am only hoping to address that imbalance in whatever ways seem reasonable, to push for tighter roles and less dominance of the large classes. This is just one small area of that.
But anyway, if you're still not convinced, I don't think there's much else I can say. I just couldn't resist another last word  .
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-05-16 09:50 ]
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-05-16 10:47
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On 2010-05-16 08:57, Azreal wrote:
Instead of a Krill type ship, why not something else that is unique to the other two factions?
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THat would eb kool, BUt what would be these other runique ships for ICC and UGTO?
Mass torps?
Mass Rails/Partical?
Mass Missiles?.....oh wait, ICC does have that
I do like the idea, i just dont see what else can be unique at the moment
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