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question of the invisible ring |
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2011-05-14 20:57
You do not simply offset the calculation the server has to do every time it hits your ship with a 'longer load time'. It doesn't work like that.
The server has to calculate where the projectiles and weapons are heading and/or colliding 20 times a second. Colliding with a circle x distance from the center of your ship is much easier than tracing the outline of the model and doing that every update in the game world.
There is no simple way to do it - it is far too costly to do in real time. This is why ALL games use 'hit boxes' instead of accurate hit-model detection (and I really do mean ALL games).
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-05-14 21:23
Quote:
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On 2011-05-14 20:57, BackSlash wrote:
You do not simply offset the calculation the server has to do every time it hits your ship with a 'longer load time'. It doesn't work like that.
The server has to calculate where the projectiles and weapons are heading and/or colliding 20 times a second. Colliding with a circle x distance from the center of your ship is much easier than tracing the outline of the model and doing that every update in the game world.
There is no simple way to do it - it is far too costly to do in real time. This is why ALL games use 'hit boxes' instead of accurate hit-model detection (and I really do mean ALL games).
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remember that when if you ever played wow and find your self as a caster maleeing a boss even though your typically outta malee range. same thing happens here.
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Pegasus
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 434
From: Eleventh galaxy on the right!
| Posted: 2011-05-15 05:07
Quote:
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On 2011-05-14 20:57, BackSlash wrote:
This is why ALL games use 'hit boxes' instead of accurate hit-model detection (and I really do mean ALL games).
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Hit boxes within the model itself not a hit box you can hit a large distance outside from the model, I think this is what you are trying to explain?. i.e ww2online and world of tanks penetration detection. Prehaps the next version of Darkspace will advance to allow this.
ww2online penetration hitbox from game release 2001.
world of tanks example hit box within model of tank.
[ This Message was edited by: Pegasus on 2011-05-15 05:07 ]
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-05-15 06:56
maybe we should the made world of tanks into world of darkspace 
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-05-15 07:09
Neither of those games has to track as many objects in real time as DarkSpace. And what you showed was just a semi-wire model of a tank. I'm not sure how that counts for hit detection.
Also, hit boxes that are pretty much just a few straight lines are much easier to calculate than models with many many subtle changes (much like the UGTO dread model).
There is a reason all games that work like DarkSpace use hitboxes. DarkSpace works more like quake than world of warcraft, in that we have to track projectiles, update them in real time (to see if they collide with anything else). Scanning the outline of all ships 20 times a second is very costly and I'm afraid there is very little we can do to combat the processing powered required to do this in real time.
World of Tanks and WW2O don't have to do as much tracking, and so can afford such tracing of models in real time. Most of our processing power is spent detecting collisions of objects, and I doubt anyone on the dev team will want to take a performance hit to the tune of 20-50%. There's not that much room on the server.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-05-15 07:46
ok, just asking
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Animyx
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: December 08, 2008
Posts: 108
From: Ground Zero
| Posted: 2011-05-15 20:13
i like the idea of a rectangular hit box, this would make it more realistic, as turning to face your opponents gives them less of a space to hit, cos currently it doesn't matter which way your facing you have the same size Armour on all sides, we ain't flying ships we're flying circles with the model of a ship in the center....
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2011-05-15 20:34
Why don't we just change all ships into large spheres, then the hitboxes and ships will match?
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SpaceGK
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 26, 2009
Posts: 323
From: Ontario, Canada
| Posted: 2011-05-15 21:16
What if there were 2 rings around a ship? (still circular)
The first, outer one that already exists would be to determine if the ship was hit.
The second, inner ring would be much tighter to the ship, and as small as it could be without the ship model sticking out of it. It would be where collisions would be shown impacting. This ring would be invisable to players.
Ex.
Make sence? It still wouldn't look perfect, but it would be better. I'm just not sure how you would show the impact of shots that passed between the first and second rings...
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-05-15 22:41
space that is making no sence. Why not make an eclipse that hugs said ship as closly as possible
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-16 05:21
Quote:
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On 2011-05-15 22:41, Cmdr Zod wrote:
space that is making no sence. Why not make an eclipse that hugs said ship as closly as possible
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Well i guess short of making rectangular or conformal hitboxes, making them as small as possible works too.
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Thernhoghas
Grand Admiral
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 243
From: somewhere in Germany
| Posted: 2011-05-16 06:08
Quote:
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On 2011-05-15 22:41, Cmdr Zod wrote:
space that is making no sence. Why not make an eclipse that hugs said ship as closly as possible
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because the circle is easier to calculate for the server
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2011-05-16 06:22
I think the hitbox just uses an automatic calculation to determine the size of the ship model, but it may, given the fact that all the rings are spaced rather far away from the hull, add a bit of extra space just to avoid any visual strangeness - antennae sticking out of the shield rings, for example. That said, it may be possible to tighten that up.
I don't actually know how its done and if it's possible to tweak, but it seems like a circle that is closer to the blue one on Space's diagram above would make more sense.
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Aaron Lienhardt
Fleet Admiral
Joined: December 18, 2009
Posts: 76
| Posted: 2011-05-16 08:39
anyway what everyone is pointing to is that the game shouldn't stick to what it is now...
you are making new weapon inventory for ships..thats good but what about how planets look like? or what it looks like when a ship crashes to something? or how projectiles look like?
the game is awesome but there is always room for upgrades.
expensive sure, takes a while sure, but all updates in graphic and combat
would be great for everyone.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-16 12:54
The blue one does make a lot more sense. It's especially apparent with stations and nodes.
It would make scouts, frigates and maybe destroyers exceedingly difficult to hit, but that might not be a bad thing.
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