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question of the invisible ring |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2011-05-16 14:38
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On 2011-05-16 12:54, General Zod wrote:
It would make scouts, frigates and maybe destroyers exceedingly difficult to hit, but that might not be a bad thing.
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That would be a good thing actually.
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-05-16 15:56
Quote:
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On 2011-05-16 12:54, General Zod wrote:
The blue one does make a lot more sense. It's especially apparent with stations and nodes.
It would make scouts, frigates and maybe destroyers exceedingly difficult to hit, but that might not be a bad thing.
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It would make combat ships even less effective than they already are and assault ships won't even notice the change. Honestly, try to hit a moving cruiser at 400/600/800 gu away and then do it again with a destroyer. I really think you will hit once there will be a blue moon on February 30th.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-16 15:58 ]
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-05-16 16:07
Quote:
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On 2011-05-16 15:56, Gerlach wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-16 12:54, General Zod wrote:
The blue one does make a lot more sense. It's especially apparent with stations and nodes.
It would make scouts, frigates and maybe destroyers exceedingly difficult to hit, but that might not be a bad thing.
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It would make combat ships even less effective than they already are and assault ships won't even notice the change. Honestly, try to hit a moving cruiser at 400/600/800 gu away and then do it again with a destroyer. I really think you will hit once there will be a blue moon on February 30th.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-16 15:58 ]
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would make positions more important. Just like with Fighter Jets today, the goal is to get on the enemies Six (tail) but here you would want to get your fore arc pointed at an enemies side.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-05-16 18:12
well...if smaller ships are hard to hit...maybe would encourage you to use it then. there are very little small ships around these days, its either newbies or players tired of dreads that dont hold on to their pride in being big and fat and punch real hard.
anyway... i think it would be more...how you say it..?? important how you move. or something.
it not the must be feature to happen in next patch, but would be welcome anytime soon 
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-16 18:41
Scouts, Frigates, and even Destroyers with a good pilot are already hard to hit with anything but beams. If you're over 100-150 GU from a Scout, good luck hitting it. If you're over 250-300 GU from a Frigate, good luck hitting it. If you're over 350-400 GU from a Destroyer, good luck hitting it.
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-05-17 00:46
Zod and Ravendark, you both didn't get it, Talien got it right. It's not possible to hit a small ship with at least half skilled pilot or even a rookie with a bit of lag over a certain distance. It has nothing to do with positioning, only speed of the target, it's distance and how it changes it's flight vector is what matters.
Cruisers start to be immortal to main guns over 600gu, destroyers 400 and frigates even 200gu. At this point and beyond they can evade whatever you throw on them unless you catch them in a serious crossfire. Have you guys ever been in a HC vs BC or TC fight? Those go on forever as they are almost unable to hit each other.
My main point was only combat class ships (those which don't have lasers as primary armament) simply can't hit them while assault ships (all out or mostly laser) are not affected by this change at all, leaving only K'Luth with the edge over everyone else simply because of lasers and ability to control any dogfight as they please. And also the UGTO most favourite ship, the EAD so we make this list this complete.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-17 00:56 ]
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SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness)
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: February 03, 2007
Posts: 310
From: UK
| Posted: 2011-05-17 05:13
maybe if they were able to change the way the armor arcs looked like for example why not try and get the armor arcs closer to the ship and in the case of the ugto dreads make them look more oval
You know instead of the armor arc we have now (big and round and no where near the hull). maybe you could decrease the size the the armor arcs so they fit closer to the ship and still keeping the all sides of the arcs
it would prolly go like this destroyers to dreads would be more oval and stations would still be round but closer to the hull
i also would like it so the weapons hit the actual ship not the armor rings (prefer the rings as a visual recognition and not as the physical barrier between the weapons and the ship) granted that in 1.483 if your armor arcs touched the planet you would die and now in the current version if your aromr arcs hit the planet you wont die unless you actual ship touches would like this implamented for the weapons as well the arcs do the same thing that they always do but instead of hitting the armor arc it hits the ship
(sorry for repeating afew things)
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-05-17 05:31
Collision rings cannot be made oval because it makes calculation harder, and cannot be 'tightened' further because it is already very tight. The sphere is just big enough to calculate collision of fighters and missiles on your random antennae which stick out of your ship.
So, deforming the sphere or resizing it is not an option. End of discussion.
Space's idea is a very good possibility to improve the cosmetic appearance of collisions.
Quote:
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On 2011-05-16 12:54, General Zod wrote:
The blue one does make a lot more sense. It's especially apparent with stations and nodes.
It would make scouts, frigates and maybe destroyers exceedingly difficult to hit, but that might not be a bad thing.
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You have the wrong idea, the blue ring exists to render the collision effects closer to the ship, not calculate collision in the first place. Small ships will stay as immortal to hits as they are right now should Space's idea be implemented.
Funny how you guys can argue about something that was never proposed in the first place, all arguing in it's favour.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-05-17 08:42
Alternatively you just re-scale the ship models so that they more closely fit the collision rings, thus avoiding the whole "ships become harder to hit" problem.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-05-17 08:51
The collision detection wont be changing anytime soon.
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*Obsidian Shadow*
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 03, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-05-17 10:48
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On 2011-05-17 08:42, Gejaheline wrote:
Alternatively you just re-scale the ship models so that they more closely fit the collision rings, thus avoiding the whole "ships become harder to hit" problem.
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from what i've heard here and there i believe that the armour rings are from the original ship size models and wern't reduced along with the ship models resulting in arcs twice the size of the ship...mainly stations and dreads 
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-17 11:50
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On 2011-05-17 00:46, Gerlach wrote:
Zod and Ravendark, you both didn't get it, Talien got it right. It's not possible to hit a small ship with at least half skilled pilot or even a rookie with a bit of lag over a certain distance. It has nothing to do with positioning, only speed of the target, it's distance and how it changes it's flight vector is what matters. |
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I don't get it? I was around when destroyers were the best ships in the game; and I was around when a scout's weapons did as much damage as a dread's and were a bigger threat than they are now.
EDIT: Oh you mean you just want a closer visual representation of hits, not the actual hitbox reduced? I'd rather have the hitboxes reduced, at least on the large ships. The visual is tied to the calculating, and the calculating is wrong. It's sort of like what Shig said, that maybe the hitboxes are winding up a bit too large (or they were from the older, larger models which does make sense)
You can hit stations and dreads hiding behind planets by point-clicking and hitting their green rings, even if the ship itself is out of view. That's especially true for stations whose hitboxes are way too large. The MI node is even further exaggerated.
[ This Message was edited by: General Zod on 2011-05-17 12:02 ]
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-05-17 12:12
Quote:
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On 2011-05-17 11:50, General Zod wrote:
I'd rather have the hitboxes reduced, at least on the large ships. The visual is tied to the calculating, and the calculating is wrong.
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Do not forget that a ship's hitbox decrees the possibility of achieving a hit. If the hitbox was reduced, the ship would become inherently harder to hit. So, a Combat dread would be easier to hit than a Mandible because K'Luth hulls are generally larger than human ship hulls.
While at the new speeds, a station will not be avoiding any projectile launched at it, a dread will benefit profitably from a hitbox reduction. Also, the hitbox makes sure that weapons with falloff can not deal damage beyond a certain point (for stations, a SCL deals about 70-85% of their maximum damage. Thank the hitbox which makes sure you don't take more damage than that).
No matter how experienced we are, Zod, meddling with things that can affect the balance of the game is the forte of the developers, not us.
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Thernhoghas
Grand Admiral
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 243
From: somewhere in Germany
| Posted: 2011-05-17 13:33
Quote:
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On 2011-05-17 12:12, Brahmastra wrote:
Do not forget that a ship's hitbox decrees the possibility of achieving a hit. If the hitbox was reduced, the ship would become inherently harder to hit. So, a Combat dread would be easier to hit than a Mandible because K'Luth hulls are generally larger than human ship hulls.
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ummm what? o.O
EDIT:
I decided to specify my confusion:
shouldn't the Mandible be easier to hit, because it's bigger?
[ This Message was edited by: Thernhoghas on 2011-05-17 14:38 ]
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2011-05-17 15:01
Scaling down the rings on the ships with large gaps between their hull and the actual rings (like nodes) would be all that would be really necessary, but why should the rings be sized appropriately for the antennae and other odd projections? It might not look as pretty but in all honesty they sometimes lead to a large increase in the overall ship hitbox size for such a tiny part on the ship.
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