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Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
|  Posted: 2011-12-22 07:24
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On 2011-12-22 02:11, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
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On 2011-12-22 01:40, chlorophyll wrote:
When you discuss on CM ship, you talk about CM. Who is a CM? What do you expect from CM and what does a CM inspire faction members?
IMHO, CM isn't neccessary to be a great warrior. CM should be a talent leader on who you may lay your hope. With that point of view, I don't think CM needs a pure combat ship. Frankly, CM main role should concern influencing faction members and lead them to archive a goal. In such case, CM needs a ship with AURA FIELD, which has been developing.
What might an aura field function?
- Increase recover rate, including: weapon cooldown, energy restoration, hull repairation.
- Increase ability, including: damage, range, speed.
In general, CM ship is a ship mainly used as the source of faction power. I guess its layout ought to be like Interdictor: cruiser, one aura gadget, several beams, and a core weapon.
The aura field of each faction should be different. I suggest:
- ICC field increases energy restoration and weapon damage.
- UGTO field increases hull repairation and weapon range.
- KLuth field increase weapon cooldown and weapon speed.
The current testing CM ships are hilarious. They're small ships with lots of medium weapon and one armor layer. At first glance, they ought to kick arse but soon you realise dreadaught with cannons and heavy beams win.
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2011-12-22 01:41 ]
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Agreed. Devs should just take their time and exercise their better judgment on what's good for the game instead of capitulating to flavor-of-the-month QQs and requests from players about ship modding and bla bla bla special ranked ships.
There are enough ships in the game as it is and they all already have a role and purpose. What the game needs is improvement in cosmetics (GUI, overall looks) and depth (economy? actual command ship functions? etc)
Maybe all the existing command ships should be revamped with the aura fields you suggested and made available only to CM ranks.
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I agree. Each rank already unlocks a new ship class for the player to roleplay. Installing features that allows these players to take more pride into what they have gained rather than what they can eventually aquire. Will make things a lot more interesting.
Currently. As we achieve a higher rank we assume more command and supportive roles. Grand Admiral despite Chief Marshal is still the primary rank in my opinion most would seek to achieve. It gives access to the highest ship class that displays the command role, the station. Even settling for Fleet Admiral allows a player access to powerful dreadnoughts, and stations. Making its senior Chief Marshal a less motivating goal.
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woodburner
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 02, 2010
Posts: 34
| Posted: 2011-12-22 11:33
I Love the Idea of CM class ship but these little supped up Frigates are no good they have no role in DS, and when you reach the top rank I think you should have a top ship which betters everything CMs should have super Drednaughts to comand not silly Frigates
So plesae plesae plesae drop these little toys and give CMs some real Fire Power
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2011-12-22 14:46
Quote:
| On 2011-12-22 01:40, chlorophyll wrote:
When you discuss on CM ship, you talk about CM. Who is a CM? What do you expect from CM and what does a CM inspire faction members?
IMHO, CM isn't neccessary to be a great warrior. CM should be a talent leader on who you may lay your hope. With that point of view, I don't think CM needs a pure combat ship. Frankly, CM main role should concern influencing faction members and lead them to archive a goal. In such case, CM needs a ship with AURA FIELD, which has been developing.
What might an aura field function?
- Increase recover rate, including: weapon cooldown, energy restoration, hull repairation.
- Increase ability, including: damage, range, speed.
In general, CM ship is a ship mainly used as the source of faction power. I guess its layout ought to be like Interdictor: cruiser, one aura gadget, several beams, and a core weapon.
The aura field of each faction should be different. I suggest:
- ICC field increases energy restoration and weapon damage.
- UGTO field increases hull repairation and weapon range.
- KLuth field increase weapon cooldown and weapon speed.
The current testing CM ships are hilarious. They're small ships with lots of medium weapon and one armor layer. At first glance, they ought to kick arse but soon you realise dreadaught with cannons and heavy beams win.
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+1 for this idea, It would give a CM a way to motivate team members and give an advantage to their team. Just please make sure its not to over the top. 
[ This Message was edited by: Brutality on 2011-12-22 14:48 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2011-12-22 21:53
On 2011-12-20 13:29, Talien wrote:
Even 3 reloads would be a bad idea unless there's a limit put in place on how many reloads can be active on one target at a time, do we really want to go back to invincible shrooms?
Yeah, reloads are frankly too powerful. I don't mind engineers with more drones (well, three drones) but reloads just have too much potential for stacking and craziness. Don't get your hopes up here.
On 2011-12-22 02:11, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Agreed. Devs should just take their time and exercise their better judgment on what's good for the game instead of capitulating to flavor-of-the-month QQs and requests from players about ship modding and bla bla bla special ranked ships.
Sorry, but if we're capitulating to player requests, wouldn't that mean I should ignore yours as well?
Also, I put these ships in a looong time ago but just never rolled them out. The idea isn't to flesh out an entirely new class and use for CMs - its to give them something a bit random and a bit fun to goof around with. You're taking this way too seriously. And its hardly encouraging me to care/add anything further/improve these.
There are enough ships in the game as it is and they all already have a role and purpose. What the game needs is improvement in cosmetics (GUI, overall looks) and depth (economy? actual command ship functions? etc)
Frankly, I wasn't trying to come up with something to fill an obvious gap. I wasn't TRYING to come up with something with cannons and missiles to snipe from afar. I was trying to come up with something silly for CMs to bonk each other with and goof around with. Apparently you don't have time for such nonsense - and I don't have time for anything more serious, so it looks like we'll have to settle for one more inactive dev.
Maybe all the existing command ships should be revamped with the aura fields you suggested and made available only to CM ranks.
Brilliant! Wish we'd thought of that... oh, when we conceived of the aura system in the first place.
On 2011-12-22 01:40, chlorophyll wrote:
Frankly, CM main role should concern influencing faction members and lead them to archive a goal. In such case, CM needs a ship with AURA FIELD, which has been developing.
That's the idea. I do like and appreciate the feedback on auras.
The current testing CM ships are hilarious. They're small ships with lots of medium weapon and one armor layer. At first glance, they ought to kick arse but soon you realise dreadaught with cannons and heavy beams win.
They're not supposed to be better, just different. If they were to be better, we would have ADDED points to the layout; instead, I just shifted points around from defense to offense. So yes, no surprise that dreads can win.
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I didn't intend for the ships to be totally worthless, just mostly pointless, if that distinction makes sense. Hence my willingness to accept feedback on how to tweak them -- but not really being open to the "super dreadnought" or "uber supply" or whatever type ideas. The idea with MA+ ships was just that they provide a little variety and excessive focus to high ranked players, to mix things up a bit. The whole idea started on a lark, really. I didn't expect it to be such a big deal; the command ships should eventually fill the role of unique ships for high ranking players. This is just something funny in the meantime.
[ This Message was edited by: Shigernafy on 2011-12-22 21:54 ]
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-12-22 22:18
hence my post;
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On 2011-12-21 19:13, Defiance{CM7} wrote:
i withdraw my wants from this project.
Im just happy you guys are taking the time to make something for CM. I dont give a hoot if its a purple ship that craps rainbows and launches space glitter torps, Ill fly it just because you made it.
Thanks in advance for whatever you come up with
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance{CM7} on 2011-12-21 19:13 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-12-22 23:51
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On 2011-12-22 21:53, Shigernafy wrote:
Sorry, but if we're capitulating to player requests, wouldn't that mean I should ignore yours as well?
Also, I put these ships in a looong time ago but just never rolled them out. The idea isn't to flesh out an entirely new class and use for CMs - its to give them something a bit random and a bit fun to goof around with. You're taking this way too seriously. And its hardly encouraging me to care/add anything further/improve these.
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Hmm. So you were just screwing around with funny ship designs? Go figure, who knew.
Anyway, it wasn't so much as a tirade or criticism of you devs as it was my observation on repeated player requests for ships that border on the ridiculous. So, don't take it too hard.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-12-23 00:00
luth destroyer with 1 engine 2 reactors and amtorps and ELFs pl0x? (anaemic slow lobster wrestler armed with whips loaded with leesches)
icc destroyer with 1 engine 8 reactors 4 shields 8 armor and HCLs(!) plz  (super armored slow chunky bulky fortress with a shledgehammer)
ugto destroyer with 1 engine and 6 armor (1 fore 1 left 1 right 3 aft) armed with HCLs and torps mounteed on it's aft  (DS version of super Johnny Test. nuff said)
MA ships are fuuuuuuuuuuuu--
--nny
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Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
| Posted: 2011-12-23 04:52
If the case CM received silly frigates rather than a ship class an actual Marshal would command... I would rather them not have ships at all than play with the unrealistic. Just us the repeat of our nightmares from the previous patch.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2011-12-23 19:45
One thing I would like to add on the aura discussion is that the ICC Command dread would probably need an overhaul before I could see this really being usable on it. It can't fight effectively due to lack of weapons and it can't hide do to the ECCM that just got implemented last patch. Could we perhaps have a higher ranked Command dread that has a similar layout to the utgo one? Just an idea, not sure if it’s a good one, but I wanted to put it up for discussion because I don't see the current ICC command dread doing very well in combat where you would see these auras used.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-12-23 21:30
While we're on this aura thing;
Some non-stackable effects of having a CM in a command ship within 500 Gus could be
- Detection range boost (maybe 15%)
- +10% bonus to ECM, ECCM effectiveness
- +15% planet influence/cap speed
- +10% build speed
- +10% speed up in EW & JD recharge times
That's all tt I can think of ATM.
What should be avoided are bonuses to weaps damage and repair rates as this will skew balance.
The bonuses should demonstrate improvements to fleet operations when a C3 vessel is around.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-12-23 22:55
Yeah, damage and repair rate boosts would probably not be so good, but more supportive effects like that are great.
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Blackjack [DBL]
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 344
From: The land of venomous reptiles.
| Posted: 2011-12-26 11:56
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On 2011-12-23 21:30, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
What should be avoided are bonuses to weaps damage and repair rates as this will skew balance.
The bonuses should demonstrate improvements to fleet operations when a C3 vessel is around.
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Agreed, it should be like the ships systems are better managed, not magically better. Though the fact the Command Carrier is very lightly armed might be an issue, unless they plan to have an enormous range.
edit:4 am is bad for spelling...
[ This Message was edited by: Perseverance *FCA* on 2011-12-26 11:57 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2011-12-26 13:44
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On 2011-12-23 19:45, Brutality wrote:
One thing I would like to add on the aura discussion is that the ICC Command dread would probably need an overhaul before I could see this really being usable on it. It can't fight effectively due to lack of weapons and it can't hide do to the ECCM that just got implemented last patch. Could we perhaps have a higher ranked Command dread that has a similar layout to the utgo one? Just an idea, not sure if it’s a good one, but I wanted to put it up for discussion because I don't see the current ICC command dread doing very well in combat where you would see these auras used.
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The UGTO CD is where I would like to see other CDs at. The other faction's CD is nothing compared to it atm.
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Demigan
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 88
| Posted: 2011-12-27 04:43
Now that everyone seems to be done a little.
Imagine if they had given you destroyers and a frigate that COULD destroy a DREADNAUGHT. Would you have liked that?
These are small ships, admittedly armed with anti-big-ship weapons. But they could be perfect smaller ship hunters, due to their higher speed and, with the right attack angle, high attack power.
Also, for people who kept claiming that DS should be build as a teamplay game, why are you complaining about these ships? It seems obvious to me that in a big battle, these ships would be invaluable. You can easily play two roles: first, due to your speed and the fact that CM's are supposed to know how to fly, you can hunt and kill the dreadnaught killers. As you are a good player, you can also stay alive long enough despite the low armour.
You can also, once dreadnaughts are engaged, deal loads of damage by flying in from an angle the dreadnaught doesn't expect (read, the angle he isn't firing from). By the time he reallises one of these wet towel's is attacking them, you are already past and gone, having fired a nice load. upon which you immidiately return to killing a few smaller ships, before you make a turn to attack him once more. That way, you can deal good additional damage to dreadnaughts, and be one of the most welcome players in a team as you can defend the support ships and the dreadnaughts, while still able to whip some damage vs any other ship.
As an extra role, once you do get too much damage due to one good dreadnaught strike or the continuous attacks of smaller ships, you can use your beams to PD down a lot of fighters, which makes you an even more valuable member of any team in defence of the dreads, and then get a quick fix at the closest repair ship (and since you have weak armour, a quick fix is quick indeed AND fills up your ammo!), and you are back in the fray before anyone notices you are gone!
Yours sincerely,
Demigan.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-12-27 07:40
as ive already said, only the Kluth and ugto CM ship are truely capable of hunting small ships. In fact, they are almost exclusivly designed to take on small ships.
You guys really really arent going to like me in the UGTO CM frig. You already cant deal with my Borader cruiser.
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance{CM7} on 2011-12-27 17:12 ]
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