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[1.672] Feedback & Bugs |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2012-03-11 23:30
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On 2012-03-11 11:25, Rebellion *XO* wrote:
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On 2012-03-11 10:57, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
ECCM needs to have more impact on cloak drain.
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i agree with this, maybe the luth players are just really good at energy management but the ECCM dosent seem to have much effect that i can detect....So from my prospective as an ICC player it seems like we were stripped of ping and really got nothing back in return. Im fine with it if it was intended to be that way though.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-03-11 23:39 ]
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Can't speak for the rest of the Kluth players, but I have been more cautious in gameplay compared to pre-1.672, I will bug out once I've reached 30/179 energy, unless I'm sure that I can destroy the target and there's no one else in the area to kill me after that. Plus, I avoid alphas now unless it's a finishing move.
Apparently some ppl are reporting that pinging still works.... somehow. I dunno. I haven't been pinged yet. But I do notice that while cloaked, I get sig spikes that causes enemy ships to start shooting at me (no ECM on), so I suppose I *may* have been pinged somehow.
Actually... I do notice an increase in energy drain, especially about a few hours back when I was attacking Twilight in DresKona, which had several sensor plats and a few ICC players around it. I lost a Siphon after I ran out of energy and the cloaking device failed on me, leaving me caught in the dico and with no cloak.
So I would say that, yes, ECCM does increase cloak energy use. But probably not as much as human players hoped it would.
Right now, there are 2 issues
- ECM not working as intended. It advertises the cloaked player instead of fighting off ECCM effects
- ECCM is not having enough effect on cloaked ships. (I suggest a 10% increase in drain over the current settings to test first)
I hope these 2 will be fixed together. They need to be addressed simultaneously to ensure that the new cloak mechanics works as advertised.
A single Kluth ship should not be able to attack an ECCM fort easily. It should take an sizeable number of ships with ECMs running to take on a well defended planet. But right now, it's a little borked.
The 3rd point is beacons. The effect on sig should be reduced, to take into account the new ECCM/ECM relationship. Either this needs a reduction in sig rise, or a shortened beacon active period. I prefer the former.
But I hope the devs add in a factor that everytime the beaconed ship is hit, there is a chance that the beacon can be destroyed by incoming fire.
But first, the two things above need to be addressed. They're more important.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-03-12 00:32
Agreed on all of the above - will look into getting them into beta tomorrow at some point.
Will also look at improving planetary defences further.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-03-13 06:28
Quote:
| On 2012-03-11 23:30, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
- ECM not working as intended. It advertises the cloaked player instead of fighting off ECCM effects
- ECCM is not having enough effect on cloaked ships. (I suggest a 10% increase in drain over the current settings to test first) |
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ECCM raises signature whilst the cloak drains energy to mask the signature of the ship. Increasing the energy drained for masking signature is what you're asking for.
IMHO, there are many sensor gadgets in game and some are unnecessary. The focused ECCM does not work when the target disappear so no human equip it. The focused ECM is, somehow, not favorable for Luth because everyone needs ECM. I think how sensor works is what need to change. I prefer ECCM/ECM has 2 usage: when clicking on a target, it is focused; when target nothing, it is longwave. Focused signature is double than longwave signature. The signature is linearly efficient.
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| On 2012-03-11 23:30, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
The 3rd point is beacons. The effect on sig should be reduced, to take into account the new ECCM/ECM relationship. Either this needs a reduction in sig rise, or a shortened beacon active period. I prefer the former. |
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A beacon raises 20 signature, slow velocity and last approximately 2 minute. This is such a harsh punishment for Luth and does not give the beaconer good prestige. Besides, dark red viabrate ring is certainly difficult to detect in this game. I suggest a beacon: pluses 10 signature; bright orange; last 30 seconds; missle speed.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-03-14 01:43
a bit late, but i think the team is going in the right direction with planet levels.
This past weekend when kluth invaded icc space, planet levels set the precidence of battle. I fealt obligated to defend against kluth attack, as well as press my own counter attack.
I chose targets for defanse, and counter attack based on the level of planet in question. i felt urged to take back lost ground quickly to avoid engagements at high level planets.
Im sure the offensive was satisfying to the kluth involved, as their front lines grew in level the longer they held it.
In short, i felt involved. Planets had stratigic value on a level ive not experienced in ds as of late.
Definatly huge leaps forward. Just wish i had thought of it.
Im sorry i dont have any real specific details... But the battles where tense. i can tell you that a level 3 planet with either offence 1 or defense bases does some real damage. I dont know about offense 2 bases, but they are sure to be nasty.
Only thing i can suggest at this point, is the inclusion of different damage effects for different types of bases, and maby further, factions.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-03-14 03:16
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On 2012-03-13 06:28, chlorophyll wrote:
ECCM raises signature whilst the cloak drains energy to mask the signature of the ship. Increasing the energy drained for masking signature is what you're asking for.
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Yes, that's what I'm asking for. An increase in ECCM impact on our cloak energy drain.
What's the point of fighting if we're going to steamroll ICC because it's so easy? Where's the challenge in that?
ECCM is twice stronger than ECM. So with this, it shd be 2.2x stronger. The 10% should show itself once the IQQs start turning on their EW. Otherwise, if the enemy isn't using ECCM, we should still be quite energy efficient cloaked.
Right now, it drains under ECCM, but it doesn't drain enough.
Just remember, ECCM range is about 400. If you want to lurk, keep above 400 gus away. Once you're under 400, move in fast for the kill. Then bug out once your energy goes below the 20% mark... higher if the area is saturated with EW.
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On 2012-03-13 06:28, chlorophyll wrote:
A beacon raises 20 signature, slow velocity and last approximately 2 minute. This is such a harsh punishment for Luth and does not give the beaconer good prestige. Besides, dark red viabrate ring is certainly difficult to detect in this game. I suggest a beacon: pluses 10 signature; bright orange; last 30 seconds; missle speed.
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I believe that it has been mentioned (if you have access to the faction posts provided you're fleeted) that beacon strength will now be halved to adding 10 sigs. But the ship will still be able to take 3 beacons.
+10 sig is still alot. Your cloak energy usage will spike. And if you get beaconed once by a scout, then in most likelihood you're gonna be beaconed thrice. That's +30 sig for you.
You're effectively out of the fight, unless Kluth have 10 dreads in the area so no one gives a hoot about cloaking.
What Panth did was to balance out the ECCM and beacon effects.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-03-14 04:36 ]
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-03-14 07:26
400 gu eccm range?
Thats not good imo.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-03-14 07:34
[quote]On 2012-03-14 03:16, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
ECCM is twice stronger than ECM. So with this, it shd be 2.2x stronger. The 10% should show itself once the IQQs start turning on their EW. Otherwise, if the enemy isn't using ECCM, we should still be quite energy efficient cloaked.
Right now, it drains under ECCM, but it doesn't drain enough.[quote]
How much is enough?
Alpha is the best drainning. The first strike, so far, is nice because you have lots of energy. But what if you can't kill the target during the first strike and you're nearly out of energy?
Increasing energy used to mask signature plus strengthening ECCM duplicate the punishment and is not going to satisfy many players. I prefer one simple solution only. The more complex, the harder to balance.
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| On 2012-03-14 03:16, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
I believe that it has been mentioned (if you have access to the faction posts provided you're fleeted) that beacon strength will now be halved to adding 10 sigs. But the ship will still be able to take 3 beacons.
+10 sig is still alot. Your cloak energy usage will spike. And if you get beaconed once by a scout, then in most likelihood you're gonna be beaconed thrice. That's +30 sig for you. |
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Beacon is supposed to reveal ship location on which it clings. It's not really easy to beacon a ship and there is only one ship to launch beacon. IMHO, if we can detect ship by questing beacon light, beacon itself does not need to raise any signature. Hence, a simple solution for beacon is to make its ring brighter for easy detection and beacon itself has 0 signature and doesn't change signature of the ship on which it clings.
Of course neither of us expect beacon to be the ultimate anti luth solution. The life of beacon should only span no longer 5s. Trust me, 5s is long enough for at least one ctrl+click alpha.
Both of the solution allow a ship to take unlimited beacon.
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| On 2012-03-14 01:43, Defiance*CO* wrote:
Only thing i can suggest at this point, is the inclusion of different damage effects for different types of bases, and maby further, factions. |
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I would say that antibomb II is not worthwhile. It requires more resource than hydrid II but it doesn't inflict higher damage. Higher PD only slow down the bombing progress, it doesn't pause bombing as long as the bomber has supply; higher damage does. And bomb II is truly useless when enemy skip bombing and directly use sheer number to capture the planet. High PD has no meaning in this case. In MV, sheer number is very popular. Therefore I expect bomb II require less resource. Maybe 3 workers, 60 tech, 15 power.
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Allegiance gives the following bonuses to planets:
+ 10% bonus to allied infantry control per allegiance level. |
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I don't understand the bonus to allied infantry control.
Perhaps +bonus to depot repair rate is also nice.
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* Times to hit Allegiance levels are as follows: |
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In my point of view, with these timeline, any planet reaching level 6 and above is definitely forgotten. Procyon is the best sample.
Let's say there are 2 things to discuss about these timeline.
First, for Sagi. Assuming any cluster is captured every 5 days for normal play rate, then you won't see any level 6 planets although most activities take place in Sagi.
Second, for any server else, almost planets are above level 7. Invasion in these server is rare, with fewer players than Sagi, therefore it's more difficult.
I prefer a neater scale.
* Allegiance gives the following bonuses to planets:
+ 5% bonus to planet damage, resource output, allied infantry control, planet control, depot repair level
* Times to hit Allegiance levels are as follows:
- - 1 hour
- - 2 hours after level 1, 3 hours after planet begins leveling
- - 4 hours after Level 2, 7 hours after planet begins leveling
- so on
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2012-03-15 16:25 ]
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2012-03-14 07:55
@kenny and defiance - eccm and ecm range varies from 500 gu to 900 gu (scout to station). there is no eccm which works at 400 gu range only.
also, eccm strength varies from +4.4 to +8.6 (approximate). so the effective range at which eccm will have some effect on cloak drain increases exponentially.
@chlorophyll - kenny suggested to increase eccm strength, because if effect of signature on cloak energy drain was increased then ecm-heavy kluth ships would have very low energy drain. to prevent increase in usefulness of ecm, only eccm strength was increased.
about beacons, i think they are mostly balanced. they have ammo limit, they are not very fast, and they affect only the signature of the ship. their duration should not be reduced, because they can be used to target ecm-dependent ships such as bombers, missile launchers and border cruisers.
i would like to see longer cooldown time for beacon launcher, as long as 5 seconds (instead of current 1 second). another thing could be that the signature effect of a beacon slowly decreases with time, maybe from +10 to +5. this may work better if normal signature effect of beacons was raised from +10 to +12 or +15.
agreed on reducing time required by planets to reach the next allegience levels. 4 hours is fair, but 170 days is too long. some reduction in times is required here. one does not expect a planet to last anywhere near 170 days in an active warzone.
having a 1->2->4 hour sequence lets planets get to level 10 in 42 days. 1 month is fair enough
[ This Message was edited by: Toby D Syded on 2012-03-14 08:05 ]
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-03-14 08:05
Just remember that ECM is always 100% effective on your ship because it is at 0 range, whereas ECCM always has to effect another ship at range, which is why it is stronger. Loving the last few feedback posts.
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Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2012-03-14 11:46
jumping to planet I still end up 500+ gus from planet and not in orbit after hitting j then o
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2012-03-14 12:12
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| agreed on reducing time required by planets to reach the next allegience levels. 4 hours is fair, but 170 days is too long. some reduction in times is required here. one does not expect a planet to last anywhere near 170 days in an active warzone.
having a 1->2->4 hour sequence lets planets get to level 10 in 42 days. 1 month is fair enough
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We want to reward players for holding onto planets in the very long-term. The highest levels are probably only going to be seen on planets in home systems, which are going to make them very hard to capture.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-03-14 12:29
Regarding planet levels, it seems that no planet will ever get to max level because of plagues causing revolution. How likely is it for a planet to go for half a year without being hit by plague, let alone having morale get back up to high afterward without revolting at least once? Maybe a backwater mining/barracks planet with 30 pop and no excess food production, but never a SY or frontline planet that makes use of lots of bases.
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On 2012-03-14 07:34, chlorophyll wrote:
Perhaps +bonus to depot repair rate is also nice.
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Yes, let's promote planet hugging as the #1 tactic for UGTO again. Undoing everything that's been done with the last few updates to address that sounds like a GREAT idea.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-03-14 16:59
as stated before, i dont think they ever intended front line planets to reach max level. Its just something to aspire to.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-03-14 18:08
Of course not, but let's face it, they're more likely to be lost to plague induced revolution than opposing players. Plague, morale, and revolution should probably be worked on a bit if we can ever hope to have max level planets anywhere.
Even something as simple as the planet's level itself contributing to how quickly it recovers from plague and how likely it is to revolt. A planet that's been controlled by the same faction for a month straight should have stable infrastructure that's able to deal with a sudden outbreak and be less likely to revolt than a planet that's just been capped. Maybe even have no chance of revolt at, say, 5+.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-03-14 20:26
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On 2012-03-14 18:08, Talien wrote:
Of course not, but let's face it, they're more likely to be lost to plague induced revolution than opposing players. Plague, morale, and revolution should probably be worked on a bit if we can ever hope to have max level planets anywhere.
Even something as simple as the planet's level itself contributing to how quickly it recovers from plague and how likely it is to revolt. A planet that's been controlled by the same faction for a month straight should have stable infrastructure that's able to deal with a sudden outbreak and be less likely to revolt than a planet that's just been capped. Maybe even have no chance of revolt at, say, 5+.
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I dunno about plague.
But Morale and Revolution should be related to Alleigiance.
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