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This game is a baby eater. |
Marius Falix Grand Admiral
Joined: July 05, 2010 Posts: 268 From: Luyten
| Posted: 2010-11-12 13:39  
yes its not how it used to be anymore.
i flew a suppy, fixing ships for hours on end during massive engagements (used to read while i did so)
now a days its fairly...well !~&!@^#&.
no more massive ass battles, most of the vets gone, (well for ICC anyways)
its repetitive and boring and nobody likes getting station stomped. honestly guys... it used to be alot worse, with about 8 icc on with 2 of which dread capable, vs about 6 dreads.
il say it again... its better than it used to be.
_________________ “We give our lives for the lives of Humanity. May you all see better days.”
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Bombg Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 54
| Posted: 2010-11-12 14:19  
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On 2010-11-12 13:39, Azreal wrote:
There are some pretty old vets in here giving tips. There are some new players saying THEY aren't faced with this infant-devouring issue that you are, yet I see that no matter what, you have no answer besides a negative one.
perhaps you aren't sure of how the flow of the game works. Perhaps you do not understand, that if you are after this elusive rank, then you can supply, build (mostly in scen), scout, and do some standoff combat until you finally reach the rank of whatever you are after.
The hardest thing to get is going to actually be combat pres at the lower ranks. Scenario makes bombing, capping, building easier to achieve. The MV offers a better chance for supply points. Both offer basically the same chance for ship captures.
Combat is probably easier to achieve at the beginning in the newbie section of the server, or in the scens. The issue isn't the dreads, unless you are just a moron. It's lower level targets to attack and begin hitting hull on. You have more lower level ai in scen than in the mv, which translates into a safer combat experience.
BTW. In case you didn't know, you get more points for hull hits than anything. And kills only matter for a counter, they don't REALLY mean anything except for a few badges needed for higher ships. You get them as you go. No need to grind for them.
Want more points out of combat? Checklist:
Watch signature. Use ecm when you can.
Use standoff ships vs higher level ships, and go for DOT rather than DPS.
Use point jumps and alphas vs smaller opponents to break to hull faster.
Stay on red armor if at all possible.
Avoid your own weapon splash, This not only damages you, but adds to FF and res lost. Remember, you need the points.
Unless you have good ecm cover, as a supply, stay the hell out of combat until you really know how to fly it. Sups are always a prime target.
Your jump drive is faster than a dreads. You can track them, or flee them, and riddle them before they can recharge and jump again. If you get point jumped, ejump for a sec and cancel, turn and fire.
Know which ships are best for each class in each faction. This really matters at cruiser.
Don't engage in PvP until you have spent at least 24 hours in a ship. That's 24 GAME TIME> you don't learn a ship's capabilities down to second nature for a while.
Yeah yeah. Don't let these nubs fool you. When they got their first AC, TC and Scales they got their ships turned to slag too.
Learn your ship to the point where you dont THINK about what weapons you have. You simply USE them. You don't Worry or even check your energy level. You know "I have fired xxx full alphas, and I know I need to jump/cloak/use MKII battery soon".
How much of this you know I dunno. I'm throwing it out for nubs willing to try ffs. I hope you are one, that's all.
And I would take on any ship here vs any ship here, and after a few tries (have to calibrate rusty skills) I could probably win in a battle over time.
This game, never forget, is rock paper scissors. You just gotta call the right one at the right time.
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While I appreciate the effort you took to write this out you haven't told me anything I don't already know. I just strongly disagree that this game is rock paper scissors as you call it. There is really no reason to take a smaller ship into combat over a larger one unless you're filling some niche role like an interdictor.
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NoBoDx Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003 Posts: 784 From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-11-12 14:42  
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On 2010-11-12 13:39, Azreal wrote:
This game, never forget, is rock paper scissors. You just gotta call the right one at the right time.
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sorry, i have to quote this:
Quote:
| Paper beats rock
Scissors beats paper
Scissors also happens to beat rock
That is until rock hits level 60 and becomes an unstoppable killing machine and beats paper and would beat scissors, but it can't find scissors because scissors are invisible. |
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_________________ The only good 'ooman is a dead 'ooman. An' da only fing better than a dead 'ooman'z a dyin' 'ooman who tell you where ter find 'is mates.
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sonicmeerkat
Joined: August 04, 2010 Posts: 10
| Posted: 2010-11-12 14:43  
Quote:
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On 2010-11-12 14:19, Bombg wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-11-12 13:39, Azreal wrote:
There are some pretty old vets in here giving tips. There are some new players saying THEY aren't faced with this infant-devouring issue that you are, yet I see that no matter what, you have no answer besides a negative one.
perhaps you aren't sure of how the flow of the game works. Perhaps you do not understand, that if you are after this elusive rank, then you can supply, build (mostly in scen), scout, and do some standoff combat until you finally reach the rank of whatever you are after.
The hardest thing to get is going to actually be combat pres at the lower ranks. Scenario makes bombing, capping, building easier to achieve. The MV offers a better chance for supply points. Both offer basically the same chance for ship captures.
Combat is probably easier to achieve at the beginning in the newbie section of the server, or in the scens. The issue isn't the dreads, unless you are just a moron. It's lower level targets to attack and begin hitting hull on. You have more lower level ai in scen than in the mv, which translates into a safer combat experience.
BTW. In case you didn't know, you get more points for hull hits than anything. And kills only matter for a counter, they don't REALLY mean anything except for a few badges needed for higher ships. You get them as you go. No need to grind for them.
Want more points out of combat? Checklist:
Watch signature. Use ecm when you can.
Use standoff ships vs higher level ships, and go for DOT rather than DPS.
Use point jumps and alphas vs smaller opponents to break to hull faster.
Stay on red armor if at all possible.
Avoid your own weapon splash, This not only damages you, but adds to FF and res lost. Remember, you need the points.
Unless you have good ecm cover, as a supply, stay the hell out of combat until you really know how to fly it. Sups are always a prime target.
Your jump drive is faster than a dreads. You can track them, or flee them, and riddle them before they can recharge and jump again. If you get point jumped, ejump for a sec and cancel, turn and fire.
Know which ships are best for each class in each faction. This really matters at cruiser.
Don't engage in PvP until you have spent at least 24 hours in a ship. That's 24 GAME TIME> you don't learn a ship's capabilities down to second nature for a while.
Yeah yeah. Don't let these nubs fool you. When they got their first AC, TC and Scales they got their ships turned to slag too.
Learn your ship to the point where you dont THINK about what weapons you have. You simply USE them. You don't Worry or even check your energy level. You know "I have fired xxx full alphas, and I know I need to jump/cloak/use MKII battery soon".
How much of this you know I dunno. I'm throwing it out for nubs willing to try ffs. I hope you are one, that's all.
And I would take on any ship here vs any ship here, and after a few tries (have to calibrate rusty skills) I could probably win in a battle over time.
This game, never forget, is rock paper scissors. You just gotta call the right one at the right time.
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While I appreciate the effort you took to write this out you haven't told me anything I don't already know. I just strongly disagree that this game is rock paper scissors as you call it. There is really no reason to take a smaller ship into combat over a larger one unless you're filling some niche role like an interdictor.
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when you are there in an Assault class dreadnaught and you have dessies and cruisers munching you to death only then comment how "weak" these small ships are because i had created a new account quite simply i was bored of throwing around big ass slow dreads....i wanted to fly smaller nimbler ships without worrying about someone pestering to get into a dread.
dreads vs dessies = DESSIE WIN!!
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Sens [R33] Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 1020 From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2010-11-12 16:36  
To be fair, it only takes one dessie/frigate to ruin a dread's day.
_________________ Proud member of the Order of the Gaifen
Founder and former Club chair of the Shigernafy Fan Club
Co-founder of the Doran Judication Comittee
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Necrotic Chief Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 378
| Posted: 2010-11-12 19:41  
i believe this goes into anouther issue people are missiing bombg is even for a new pilot is pretty capable. hes not refering to or has problem with flying against larger targets. What I believe hes trying to say is soemthing we have talked about before. The weapon leveling back in the day any ship was effective v anything depending on the pilot. Tosay you can still kill people in smaller ships v larger ones but mostly it takes more skill to do so. The truth people complain when their station or dread gets owned by a smaller ship or pack of smaller ships. Remember the days when frigats destroyers and cruisers would own dreads and stations. The truth is there is just liek bombg said no incentive to fly something smaller except for niche roles like bombg said. People in this game use the dreads and stations to make up for their lack in skill and then use the excuse that they should keep the game as it is to keep there place above newer people.
I agree with azreal has said over the years stations and dreads should be totally removed fromt he game to have a better game and encourage more skillful play. OF course this probably never happen but perhaps it can be balanced. The staff wont remove the weapon leveling and they wont remove the stations and dreads from the game. Perhaps a prestige gain multiplier on ship class to encourage using smaller ships. Forexample smaller the ship has a greater multiplier in prestige gain. Scout would obviously have the greatest multiplier.
Some of us vets are quick to attack new people in posts like these and arrogently ignore what they are really talking about. If you read in closer to what is said hes really saying soemthing that has been posted many timesin the forums as the game has gone into the termstation and dreadspace. Of course this has been a hotly debated topic and the broken prestige system have made this problem even worse as we begin to see the list of marshals and cheif marshals grow to an absurd level.
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No matter how hard they have tried. They havnt figured out how to nerf skill yet :P
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SpaceAdmiral Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010 Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-11-12 20:11  
incorrect.
In luth smaller ships fill niche roles.
In human factions many use smaller ships.
Dessies can go where dreads cannot...like into a swarm of missles
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Aradrox Grand Admiral
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 133 From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2010-11-12 20:39  
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On 2010-11-12 12:07, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-11-12 11:41, Bombg wrote:
Except you need to be admiral and above to even compete in this game. Bottom line only having the option to take pot shots for pres is lame. New players should have some level of effectiveness and I just don't see it. Yes staying out of beam range is a no brainer, but all that dread needs to do is jump on top of you and you're either toast or fleeing. Not only that but I've sat and took pot shots at a station for what seemed 30min and I never took him below 95% armor haha.
Anyway, having a PVP centric game being in such a high favor of vets discourages new players and I think it shows just in how much the game has shrank over the years.
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Dessie vs Station 1 on 1 dessie can win. will take time, and for icc some ammo reloading, but you can win. The Ticks actually used scouts effectively, I'd say if they used frigates or destroyers too they would have been even more effective. (btw where are the ticks? dead?)
Conclusion: You don't need to be above admiral, you need to have Skill.
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Everything I agree with except "skill" this is more of a knowledge and experience based game. The maneuvers dont take any fancy finger work or anything like that its more about know what to do and when to do it and what not to do and when not to do it.
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Bombg Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 54
| Posted: 2010-11-12 21:02  
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On 2010-11-12 20:11, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
incorrect.
In luth smaller ships fill niche roles.
In human factions many use smaller ships.
Dessies can go where dreads cannot...like into a swarm of missles
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The composition of fleets on any given night seems to be counter to what you're saying here. For UGTO it's usually 2-6 stations and some dreads and maybe one smaller ship hanging around somewhere.
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Fatal HI NSA PadmaVajra *XO1* Chief Marshal Fatal Squadron
Joined: May 24, 2005 Posts: 184
| Posted: 2010-11-12 22:23  
I understand your frustration.
I'd suggest adjusting your expectations and join up with others.
Many years ago when I first joined I used to get zapped just like you and it was frustrating on a level that I just went with and in time....I flipped it and tried to become a pretty good player.
Adjusting my expectations against veteran players went a long way.
It gets better if you work with it.
And if you work with others, you'll serve the fleet well. Scouts can be deadly if you know how to use them.
Padma
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Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-11-12 22:28  
As a low level player, how about doing suppie duty instead of expecting your frigate to take out dreads solo, and then crying about it when you get vaporized in one shot?
Srsly, you can't expect to get special bonuses or multipliers just cos you're in a small ship right? Get in a supp... or you go fight other small ships and stay clear of the big boys.
Until the devs implement something to make small ships more attractive for everyone to fly (hint hint... remove weps levelling), the status quo is here to stay.
_________________ ... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Sardaukar Admiral Raven Warriors
Joined: October 08, 2002 Posts: 1656
| Posted: 2010-11-12 22:37  
All I can say is, the ICC welcomes captains of small vessels. There are few sights as impressive as a few combat destroyers dancing around battle dreadnaughts and pelting them with railgun bolts.
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Lrd_Hunter Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006 Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-11-12 23:37  
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On 2010-11-12 13:39, Marius Falix wrote:
yes its not how it used to be anymore.
i flew a suppy, fixing ships for hours on end during massive engagements (used to read while i did so)
now a days its fairly...well !~&!@^#&.
no more massive ass battles, most of the vets gone, (well for ICC anyways)
its repetitive and boring and nobody likes getting station stomped. honestly guys... it used to be alot worse, with about 8 icc on with 2 of which dread capable, vs about 6 dreads.
il say it again... its better than it used to be.
the reason why most "vets" have left is cause the game is not what it use to be. people come in here and complain about this and that and dev have bascialy coward under the weight of newbie wanting to lvl faster and make the game easier.(no offonce to the dev) now the game is so easy to gain rank the game has no reall challenge anymore. and that the reason why vet have left and will never come back.
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SpaceAdmiral Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010 Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-11-13 00:11  
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On 2010-11-12 21:02, Bombg wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-11-12 20:11, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
incorrect.
In luth smaller ships fill niche roles.
In human factions many use smaller ships.
Dessies can go where dreads cannot...like into a swarm of missles
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The composition of fleets on any given night seems to be counter to what you're saying here. For UGTO it's usually 2-6 stations and some dreads and maybe one smaller ship hanging around somewhere.
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there is more than one smaller ship...
i usually see about 3-6 (cruisers and below) both as ugto or my kluth alt.
maybe pay a little attention to the small ships instead of getting intimidated at the sight of 2-6 stations and proceed to QQ?
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Bombg Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 54
| Posted: 2010-11-13 02:58  
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On 2010-11-12 22:23, Fatal PadmaVajra wrote:
I understand your frustration.
I'd suggest adjusting your expectations and join up with others.
Many years ago when I first joined I used to get zapped just like you and it was frustrating on a level that I just went with and in time....I flipped it and tried to become a pretty good player.
Adjusting my expectations against veteran players went a long way.
It gets better if you work with it.
And if you work with others, you'll serve the fleet well. Scouts can be deadly if you know how to use them.
Padma
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I don't think it's unfair to think that new players should have some type of role in fleets beyond interdictor or support ship (and I the sensor scout for finding kluth). Everyone keeps saying small ships are deadly but I just don't see it. Especially when 2/3 of your weapons are beam weapons. Small combat ships should have some level of effect beyond just trying to get some pres pop shots. No I don't want to solo dreads, but I also don't want to feel useless in a fleet because I'm doing nothing to contribute other than trying to rank up.
Quote:
| On 2010-11-12 13:39, Marius Falix wrote:
yes its not how it used to be anymore.
i flew a suppy, fixing ships for hours on end during massive engagements (used to read while i did so)
now a days its fairly...well !~&!@^#&.
no more massive ass battles, most of the vets gone, (well for ICC anyways)
its repetitive and boring and nobody likes getting station stomped. honestly guys... it used to be alot worse, with about 8 icc on with 2 of which dread capable, vs about 6 dreads.
il say it again... its better than it used to be.
the reason why most "vets" have left is cause the game is not what it use to be. people come in here and complain about this and that and dev have bascialy coward under the weight of newbie wanting to lvl faster and make the game easier.(no offonce to the dev) now the game is so easy to gain rank the game has no reall challenge anymore. and that the reason why vet have left and will never come back. |
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newbies are the lifeblood of any game. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. [ This Message was edited by: Bombg on 2010-11-13 03:01 ]
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