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[FAQ
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 Author [1.701] Release Feedback
Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
Posted: 2013-11-02 17:25   
Quote:
Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also employed in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items ("switching").



Quote:
bait and switch n. a dishonest sales practice in which a business advertises a bargain price for an item in order to draw customers into the store and then tells the prospective buyer that the advertised item is of poor quality or no longer available and attempts to switch the customer to a more expensive product. Electronic items such as stereos, televisions, telephones are favorites, but there are also loan interest rates which turn out to be only for short term or low maximums, and then the switch is to a more expensive loan. In most states this practice is a crime and can also be the basis for a personal lawsuit if damages can be proved. The business using "bait and switch" is an apt target for a class action since there are many customers but each transaction scarcely warrants the costs of a suit alone.



It is not bait and switch, it is changing the way a product functions. You can't expect to buy a digital product and then sue the seller whenever changes are made to the game it was bought for. EDIT: Also it was in the beta changelog for over a week, get over yourself.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2013-11-02 18:23 ]
_________________


DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
Posted: 2013-11-03 00:18   
Quote:
On 2013-11-02 17:13, Pantheon wrote:
We will not be refunding any enhancement purchases, as I have stated above, a 6% enhancement is still a 6% enhancement, it can be applied to other ships or saved for another day. There has been no real world value loss to any enhancement.


On market, there are 2 options here: 1) refund, 2) exchange. If Palestar is not going to refund, you can exchange.
As in Admiralchaos case, he can't do anything with 8 advanced with full durability left in garrage. Say, he may submit a ticket writing what he wish to exchange. He bought it, he didn't get it through free drop so there is no loss to Palestar. If he's still subscribed, then Palestar can give him a little help. He doesn't expect to intentionally exchange.
Only subscribed players can exchange, and subscribed players can only exchange what they bought in 1.70 (1.71 not count because the dev log stated). I think that's the fair trade of both sides: buyer and seller.
Quote:
On 2013-11-02 17:13, Pantheon wrote:
Deip: although you may like it, public voting on things is never going to happen in the gaming industry. There's a reason it isn't done anywhere. The closest you'll find is Planetside 2's developer suggestions. Which are developers making suggestions, and players voting on it. But as a whole, developers still make changes based upon the reality of things, and how they want the game to progress.


Jack, you say it yourself. You don't have to follow the result of the poll. The voting act is like a tool to attract community attention and collect the number for reference.
If the poll result is not revealed after the vote, then you're free to say "according to the poll, we decided that". Right? Remember DORAN's poll of planets? He explained some changes and nobody complain.
Quote:
On 2013-11-02 17:13, Pantheon wrote:
Players are biased (whether you want to admit it or not), and as such, are not a valid pool to be voted with.


Who is not biased? Developers are also biased. Assuming two developers read the same poll, they will give out different solution (18%, 24%, 30%).
The benefit of having a poll is you have the number to reference.
You can design a poll this way:
  1. Do you afraid of fighting modded ships? Yes/No/Somewhat
  2. At which percentage do you think you manage to defeat it in your original ship?* 12%, 18%, 24%
    * Note: due to technical isssue, there is no other numbers.
  3. How much you like a well-balance ship? Much/Average/None
  4. If you're going to combine enhancements, what will you think of? Velocity, HP, Weapon Range, Weapon Cooldown, Weapon Power, Regeneration... (multiple choices)

Not only you collect the idea to have a good decision for the number, you also implicitly transfer the intention to player to wake them think of other setups.
You may dislike it, but give it a try, Jack. Who knows if you will succeed.
_________________


Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
Posted: 2013-11-03 00:33   
Quote:
On 2013-11-03 00:18, DiepLuc wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-02 17:13, Pantheon wrote:
We will not be refunding any enhancement purchases, as I have stated above, a 6% enhancement is still a 6% enhancement, it can be applied to other ships or saved for another day. There has been no real world value loss to any enhancement.


On market, there are 2 options here: 1) refund, 2) exchange. If Palestar is not going to refund, you can exchange.
As in Admiralchaos case, he can't do anything with 8 advanced with full durability left in garrage. Say, he may submit a ticket writing what he wish to exchange. He bought it, he didn't get it through free drop so there is no loss to Palestar. If he's still subscribed, then Palestar can give him a little help. He doesn't expect to intentionally exchange.
Only subscribed players can exchange, and subscribed players can only exchange what they bought in 1.70 (1.71 not count because the dev log stated). I think that's the fair trade of both sides: buyer and seller.
Quote:
On 2013-11-02 17:13, Pantheon wrote:
Deip: although you may like it, public voting on things is never going to happen in the gaming industry. There's a reason it isn't done anywhere. The closest you'll find is Planetside 2's developer suggestions. Which are developers making suggestions, and players voting on it. But as a whole, developers still make changes based upon the reality of things, and how they want the game to progress.


Jack, you say it yourself. You don't have to follow the result of the poll. The voting act is like a tool to attract community attention and collect the number for reference.
If the poll result is not revealed after the vote, then you're free to say "according to the poll, we decided that". Right? Remember DORAN's poll of planets? He explained some changes and nobody complain.
Quote:
On 2013-11-02 17:13, Pantheon wrote:
Players are biased (whether you want to admit it or not), and as such, are not a valid pool to be voted with.


Who is not biased? Developers are also biased. Assuming two developers read the same poll, they will give out different solution (18%, 24%, 30%).
The benefit of having a poll is you have the number to reference.
You can design a poll this way:
  1. Do you afraid of fighting modded ships? Yes/No/Somewhat
  2. At which percentage do you think you manage to defeat it in your original ship?* 12%, 18%, 24%
    * Note: due to technical isssue, there is no other numbers.
  3. How much you like a well-balance ship? Much/Average/None
  4. If you're going to combine enhancements, what will you think of? Velocity, HP, Weapon Range, Weapon Cooldown, Weapon Power, Regeneration... (multiple choices)

Not only you collect the idea to have a good decision for the number, you also implicitly transfer the intention to player to wake them think of other setups.
You may dislike it, but give it a try, Jack. Who knows if you will succeed.



Your arguement is extremely flawed. I don't know where to begin...

There's a reason no studio asks its players . That's not out of malice or meaning to be discourtious, but players are god damned awful at knowing what they want, and are terrible at being honest/unbiased, all you need to do is look at the history of no-one asking their playerbase ever, to realise that it's for a very good reason. DarkSpace is no different. You have an unrepresented amount of access to the development staff, in some cases on a very personal level, but that doesn't mean we're going to operate any differently. To do so would be suicide. So no, we won't be asking the playerbase. We picked the numbers for good reason, and they'll remain that way.

The reason Doran asked the public is because the planets were just names. It doesn't matter which ones were axed, it just needed to be x number, and so Doran decided to let the playerbase choose; but in reality, it makes no difference. This is so completely different and about as far removed from game design choices as you can get. You can argue this point into your blue in the teeth, but as I stated above, we won't be asking the playerbase : there's a reason everyone in the industry doesn't.

In regards to refund or exchange, I made the stance extremely clear in my previous post.

Cleaned the thread: a lot of drama over nothing in a few on-going threads, and some +1's about nothing and stuff that's been fixed.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2013-11-03 00:44 ]
_________________


Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion


Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
Posted: 2013-11-03 01:15   
Change?... I ain't mad atcha...


These changes are all for the best and I am down with them. Balance and fairness between those who pay for blues and those who fly stock should be encouraged.

I would like to ask about something else which I heard was being dealt with and that is the issue of removing enhancements from ships we can no longer launch due to the change of rank and badge requirements for the new ships.

I have an 'old' strike cruiser in my garage and I cannot launch it in order to remove the enhancements so that I may spread them around. When and how will I have access to these enhancements which I cannot presently use because of this?

Also until when will we be able to remove enhancements for free? I would like to sort my garage out asap but this Strike cruiser no-launch problem is stopping me from responding to the game's new implemented changes and fulfilling all of my ship enhancement changes to my desired combination and satisfaction.

Thanks in advance.



_________________


  Email Orkan [OO-XII]
Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
Posted: 2013-11-03 01:33   
Quote:
On 2013-11-03 01:15, Orkan [A-OO] wrote:
Change?... I ain't mad atcha...


These changes are all for the best and I am down with them. Balance and fairness between those who pay for blues and those who fly stock should be encouraged.

I would like to ask about something else which I heard was being dealt with and that is the issue of removing enhancements from ships we can no longer launch due to the change of rank and badge requirements for the new ships.

I have an 'old' strike cruiser in my garage and I cannot launch it in order to remove the enhancements so that I may spread them around. When and how will I have access to these enhancements which I cannot presently use because of this?

Also until when will we be able to remove enhancements for free? I would like to sort my garage out asap but this Strike cruiser no-launch problem is stopping me from responding to the game's new implemented changes and fulfilling all of my ship enhancement changes to my desired combination and satisfaction.

Thanks in advance.




All enhancements on ships you cannot fly are automatically removed upon login. This is currently live, and has been for the past week.
_________________


Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2013-11-03 06:37   
Guess I'll bb when we have a luth faction again. Currently we just have a bunch of MISpace dwelling dirt farmers. Horrible for the game.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
Posted: 2013-11-03 07:03   
heres the issue im running in to this, changing out all the enhancements on my ships is costing me double now, first the 2400 credits for the plexors, now 2400 credits for the other 4 enhancements to put on my ships. also now i have a garage full of useless plexers i can't do anything with, that i bought with my money, palestar should off either an exchange or a buy back program on these enhancements.

i have roughly 20+ useless ehnahcements sitting in my storage, which is roughly 15 bucks of money spent and now wasted.
[ This Message was edited by: Borgie on 2013-11-03 07:17 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
Posted: 2013-11-03 11:32   
Quote:
On 2013-11-03 00:33, Pantheon wrote:
There's a reason no studio asks its players .


At first glance I would argue, but on the second thought, I agree. Blackberry did ask and try to satisfy all of its customers and now it fails. Apple did not ask anyone and it keeps staying #1 in the industry. Real facts prove.
To be honest, it takes me quite some time to completely comprehend what you say. Mostly due to our different culture and language, I learn a bit by a bit. Please don't mad at me if I'm extremely flaw next time.

Well, since you state 1.7 is the first time the staff work as a team, I pretty much consent. I can see plenty of hot fixes, new features, fresh models, nice animation... have come in short period. They make magnificent changes that some of us fall behind and are busy catching up with. Minority will be crestfallen, majority will hold the faith that the next patch always better. I've been following the game since 1.5x. I think the game is not developing the entertaining way as a game. It's developing the justice way of life - a clean air seperating from the dust fog of commercial MMO.

I frankly ask for the Enhancement Changes will be put on the top of the development log in bold and cap style, with more information about 24% and the enhancement will automatically put in garrage. It's the greatest impact in 1.701, users need to read it first.
_________________


Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
Posted: 2013-11-03 11:41   
Quote:
On 2013-11-03 11:32, DiepLuc wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-03 00:33, Pantheon wrote:
There's a reason no studio asks its players .


At first glance I would argue, but on the second thought, I agree. Blackberry did ask and try to satisfy all of its customers and now it fails. Apple did not ask anyone and it keeps staying #1 in the industry. Real facts prove.
To be honest, it takes me quite some time to completely comprehend what you say. Mostly due to our different culture and language, I learn a bit by a bit. Please don't mad at me if I'm extremely flaw next time.

Well, since you state 1.7 is the first time the staff work as a team, I pretty much consent. I can see plenty of hot fixes, new features, fresh models, nice animation... have come in short period. They make magnificent changes that some of us fall behind and are busy catching up with. Minority will be crestfallen, majority will hold the faith that the next patch always better. I've been following the game since 1.5x. I think the game is not developing the entertaining way as a game. It's developing the justice way of life - a clean air seperating from the dust fog of commercial MMO.

I frankly ask for the Enhancement Changes will be put on the top of the development log in bold and cap style, with more information about 24% and the enhancement will automatically put in garrage. It's the greatest impact in 1.701, users need to read it first.



No worries Diep, we appreciate your feedback.

Here are the current clamps, you can see why it's not added to the devlog (huge text incoming):

0, // MT_UNKOWN
24, // MT_DRIVE_VELOCITY,
24, // MT_DRIVE_THRUST,
24, // MT_BEAM_RANGE,
48, // MT_BEAM_ENERGY,
24, // MT_BEAM_DAMAGE,
24, // MT_WEAPON_RANGE,
48, // MT_WEAPON_ENERGY,
24, // MT_WEAPON_DAMAGE,
24, // MT_WEAPON_COOLDOWN,
0, // MT_WEAPON_AMMO
24, // MT_DEFENSE,
24, // MT_DEFENSE_RECHARGE
0, // MT_AUTOREPAIR,
0, // MT_BUILD_SPEED,
0, // MT_CLOAK,
48, // MT_EWAR_RANGE,
24, // MT_EWAR_STRENGTH,
48, // MT_EWAR_ENERGY
0, // MT_JUMPDRIVE_RANGE,
0, // MT_JUMPGATE_RANGE,
0, // MT_MINING,
72, // MT_PULSESHIELD,
0, // MT_REACTOR,
0, // MT_RELOAD,
0, // MT_SCANNER,
0, // MT_TRACTOR,
0, // MT_TURNRATE,
0, // MT_SHIPENERGY,
0, // MT_DAMAGE_REDUCTION,
0, // MT_CAPTURE_DEFENSE,
0, // MT_SIGNATURE
0, // MT_JUMPCOOLDOWN
0, // MT_JUMPSPEED
18, // MT_MASS
18, // MT_CAPTURE_WEIGHT

And to those wondering what the MT_'s are :

"Unknown Effect", // MT_UNKOWN
"Drive Velocity", // MT_DRIVE_VELOCITY,
"Drive Thrust", // MT_DRIVE_THRUST,
"Beam Range", // MT_BEAM_RANGE,
"Beam Efficiency", // MT_BEAM_ENERGY,
"Beam Damage", // MT_BEAM_DAMAGE,
"Weapon Range", // MT_WEAPON_RANGE,
"Weapon Efficiency", // MT_WEAPON_ENERGY,
"Weapon Damage", // MT_WEAPON_DAMAGE,
"Weapon Cooldown", // MT_WEAPON_COOLDOWN,
"Weapon Ammo", // MT_WEAPON_AMMO
"Defense", // MT_DEFENSE,
"Defense Recharge", // MT_DEFENSE_RECHARGE
"Auto-Repair Rate", // MT_AUTOREPAIR,
"Build Speed", // MT_BUILD_SPEED,
"Cloak Rate", // MT_CLOAK,
"EWAR Range", // MT_EWAR_RANGE,
"EWAR Strength", // MT_EWAR_STRENGTH,
"EWAR Efficiency", // MT_EWAR_ENERGY
"Jump Drive Range", // MT_JUMPDRIVE_RANGE,
"Jump Gate Range", // MT_JUMPGATE_RANGE,
"Mining Drones", // MT_MINING,
"Pulse Shield Range", // MT_PULSESHIELD,
"Reactor Boost", // MT_REACTOR,
"Reload Rate", // MT_RELOAD,
"Scanner Strength", // MT_SCANNER,
"Tractor Range", // MT_TRACTOR,
"Turn Rate", // MT_TURNRATE,
"Ship Energy Bank", // MT_SHIPENERGY,
"Damage Reduction", // MT_DAMAGE_REDUCTION,
"Capture Defense", // MT_CAPTURE_DEFENSE,
"Signature Reduction", // MT_SIGNATURE
"Jump Drive Cooldown", // MT_JUMPCOOLDOWN
"Jump Drive Velocity", // MT_JUMPSPEED
"Base Mass", // MT_MASS
"Planet Cap Rate", // MT_CAPTURE_WEIGHT
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2013-11-03 11:42 ]
_________________


Scorched Soul[+R]
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 378
From: USA, NJ, Princeton
Posted: 2013-11-03 11:50   
Quote:
On 2013-11-03 11:41, Pantheon wrote:

0, // MT_UNKOWN



I assume zero values indicate no cap.
_________________




  Email Scorched Soul[+R]
Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
Posted: 2013-11-03 11:54   
Correct!
_________________


AdmiralChaos
Chief Marshal

Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 274
Posted: 2013-11-03 12:09   
Ships with the extra ammo enhancements lose the extra ammo when switching servers. (Halfway defeats the purpose of bombers having them)
_________________
I'll chain you to the truth,
For the truth shall set you free,
I'll turn the screws of vengeance,
And bury you with honesty.

I'll make all your dreams come to life,
And slay them as quickly as they came.

DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
Posted: 2013-11-03 14:58   
Quote:
On 2013-11-03 11:41, Pantheon wrote:
Here are the current clamps, you can see why it's not added to the devlog (huge text incoming)


Users don't need that specific information. You can make a simple summary like this:
Quote:
Enhancement Changes
- Enhancement & Aura listed below now have total affects limited at maximum 24% (enhancement) and 18% (aura) per ship:
+ Enhancements: Engine Turner, Engine Booster, Beam Accelerator, Beam Multiplexer, Weapon Accelerator, Weapon Multiplexer, Weapon Cooler, Defense Upgrade, Defense Power, Signal Amplifier.
+ Aura: Station's Propaganda Center, Cruiser Targetting Computer Jammer.
- Anything else remain unchanged.


By the way, some questions:
72, // MT_PULSESHIELD: what is the enhancement that raises Pulseshield range?
Weapon Cooler, Engine Booster is capped, really? After reading the game mechanics thread, I believe these enhancements' impact is very little. EWAR range can be capped at 24% since longwave range is 1500gu.

Imho, all cruiser's aura should be capped at 24% for obvious reasons. By the way, may it be 16% or 24%? Although we discussed about these before, everytime I look at 18%, it's too eerie. (sorry for being biased here).
_________________


Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights


Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
Posted: 2013-11-03 15:18   
Quote:
On 2013-11-03 14:58, DiepLuc wrote:
By the way, some questions:
72, // MT_PULSESHIELD: what is the enhancement that raises Pulseshield range?



Auras work on the same system as enhancements, only applied to everyone in a radius instead of just yourself. That's the Pulse Shield range Aura.
_________________


  Email Walrus of Apathy
AdmiralChaos
Chief Marshal

Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 274
Posted: 2013-11-03 16:37   
Pav to Kaus gate is *still* broken.........
_________________
I'll chain you to the truth,
For the truth shall set you free,
I'll turn the screws of vengeance,
And bury you with honesty.

I'll make all your dreams come to life,
And slay them as quickly as they came.

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