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Some UGTO ships needs to be weakened |
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2009-02-05 16:33
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On 2009-02-05 16:20, Pakhos wrote:
Jack, seriously man. You dont know what u are talking about. I was there too. Since ead has 4 arcs and we are 5 dreads , mean we had to hit same arc/plate at least with 2 ships. Not hard to understand right?
Also what kind of a person/dev are u ? I feel you like salty salat cream. You always have something to say .. You always reply, use your head , they are fine , hit same arc. Lately you feel so uber than players base.. Anyway when did u last time play this game? Most of us played this game more than you and we know tactics.. So use your head before reply to a post and think about people experience...
Peace...
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You don't seem to understand how the EAD arcs are placed. It has 9 seperate armour plates. Three front, two left, two right, two rear. Meaning if five of you aren't firing on the ship from the same direction, you're going to be hitting different armour plates, and it can soak up much more damage. The same goes for the ICC Assault Dreadnaught - this is not a single case, and most ships are designed like this.
Just because at any one time, two of you might be hitting the same arc - does not mean the ship should automatically explode.
All this thread is pointing out is that your small 5 man fleet has some SERIOUS disorganisation.
As for the devs only player UGTO - you might take a second to think that we have more than one account (I do anyway). Drafell spent quite some time playing on K'luth a month or so back. And Faustus and Tael love ICC. Smartin was a dev before he left the staff, and he gave input on K'luth.
Just because you don't see it - doesn't mean it's not happening.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2009-02-05 16:36 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:34
OMG you cannot go by values on a piece of paper or in some spreadsheet. There is something wrong ingame. Do you play every day and witness this sort of thing every day? Or are you simply going by some numbers you see before you?
There are enough players saying there's a problem here, players who have been UGTO and experienced both sides of the issue. Didn't you guys recently find a problem with ELF beams? Well, now there's a problem with UGTO armor and/or the EAD. An ICC dread would not have lasted that long, I've tested it. 1 Kluth cruiser can do decent damage vs an ICC assault dread (not great, but decent, what you'd expect really). But 5 Kluth dreads vs 1 EAD? At least two of those ships were firing on the same arc and should have been able to penetrate the armor fairly quickly, especially considering they're Kluth who supposedly do the most damage, but even if they were all firing at different arcs, ANY dread vs 5 other dreads should stand no chance unless that dread had lots of rare armor enhancements.
If you are basing the balance ingame on just some numbers, then have a look at the numbers for torpedoes and mines. I don't know what your database says about them, but ingame mines are useless and torpedoes do way too little damage. They might look fine on paper according to the numbers. But again, I bet ELF beams looked fine on paper too, and it turned out they were too powerful ingame.
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Nightsabre
Marshal
Joined: February 21, 2005
Posts: 66
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:40
You know numbers only work if they are balanced with the other things. Just giving something a number that you think is propper for it is not right. You should redo the numbers and that would probably balance everything for every race alot more.
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ssj4megaman
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2003
Posts: 54
From: San Diego
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:40
hey jack, i have never heard of a dev ever act like you are acting man.. You dont argue with people who play your game, you test what they are talking about and see if it is true.. not "use you head" there are ALOT of problems in this game, alot of it since beta which i was part of, many many many years ago...
still never get my beta badge either =(
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:41
What the heck? I'll admit that I can't use EADs and instead have to make do with the good old battle dread, but judging from the way a single K'luth dread can mostly vapourise me in a handful of shots either EADs have superior armour and hull by several orders of magnitude to their lesser cousins, or those five k'luth dread pilots really, really sucked. Unless the devs accidentally typo'd several zeroes onto the end of the EAD's HP value, I don't see the first situation being possible.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:45
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On 2009-02-05 16:41, Gejaheline wrote:
What the heck? I'll admit that I can't use EADs and instead have to make do with the good old battle dread, but judging from the way a single K'luth dread can mostly vapourise me in a handful of shots either EADs have superior armour and hull by several orders of magnitude to their lesser cousins, or those five k'luth dread pilots really, really sucked. Unless the devs accidentally typo'd several zeroes onto the end of the EAD's HP value, I don't see the first situation being possible.
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You are not wrong. This problem isn't very noticeable with battle dreads and carrier dreads. For some reason the EAD has especially good armor. I wish I could tell you why.
And about this spreadsheet, does it accurately reflect everything in game? Does it show potential bugs, like maybe too high a value being assigned to a certain ship's armor? Or does it reflect how you want things in game to be, but leaves open the possibility that there might be bugs, like with the ELF beam?
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:46
For the record, we haven't touched UGTO armour since Drafell nerfed reflective and ablative half a year ago (June '08 to be exact).
If there is a problem, I suspect it's to do with desync, and that you weren't doing full damage to the ship when it had just jumped in.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with UGTO armour. We track all changes to files in our SVN, and no, that can't go wrong, or get a 'bug' in it. If it was changed, it'd state there (and it hasn't been, because I just checked the log).
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ArturK
Cadet
Joined: December 31, 2008
Posts: 27
From: Ukraine
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:47
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On 2009-02-05 16:40, ssj4megaman wrote:
hey jack, i have never heard of a dev ever act like you are acting man.. You dont argue with people who play your game, you test what they are talking about and see if it is true.. not "use you head" there are ALOT of problems in this game, alot of it since beta which i was part of, many many many years ago...
still never get my beta badge either =(
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Agree. We paid for this game and we report our troubles. And you showed us disrespect. I ment no offense by my first post, but now I have doubts about being polite further.
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The Lone Wolf
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:50
I'm not trying to be rude - if thats how you perceived it, then I appologise.
I just simply believe we're holding too many hands at the moment. Just because you think there's a problem, or an imbalance, or a ship is overpowered, does not mean it is; and that is what I'm trying to emphasis here.
There is no magical way that the EAD was normal one day, and overpowered the next. We've made pretty much zero changes to it since it's original release, except the heavy beam energy usage reduction, which was applied to ALL factions.
It sounds (and is echoed throughout this thread) like you didn't have your tactics down to a tee. Which is all fine - execution is difficult, and doesn't always go to plan. Also, this is the internet, just because you saw yourself hitting someone at point A, doesn't mean it did exactly.
I have seen plenty of EAD's completely owned by K'luth dreadnaughts. I'm not saying there are not other factors that could explain the odd occurance, but it's most deffinately not to do with certain ships being overpowered - there has been no change to the EAD for quite some time.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2009-02-05 16:56 ]
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ArturK
Cadet
Joined: December 31, 2008
Posts: 27
From: Ukraine
| Posted: 2009-02-05 16:57
But 5 vs 1! We could even kill a line station of ICC with such number even without thinking what arc to hit. I am not sure about destroying UGTO battle station with the same amount, but ICC would die in a minute.
And Torp Cruiser can easily kill a Gangila. I agree to remain its firepower as it is now, but give then the same ship to each faction. Because cruisers of other factions can not do equal damage. And torpedo cruiser got better armor then all the other cruisers.
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The Lone Wolf
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2009-02-05 17:25
Actually, yes you *can* attack an ICC Line Station without worrying about what arc to hit. Because the station has only shields, no armor, and will be re-directing those shields to wherever it is taking damage. So yeah, you CAN just hammer away at it.
ICC are less complicated to attack because of shields, even if they can withstand more damage than UGTO or K'luth when the pilot knows what he's doing.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-02-05 17:37
For Mr Sparkle: Theoretically the spreadsheet could vary from what's in game, as it doesn't pull directly from the game files and the game files aren't based on it directly - but whenever we change any stats, we change them in the actual file and the spreadsheet (which has extra formulae tracking damage over time, energy use over time, etc for easier comparisons at a glance).
So yes, it could vary from what the spreadsheet says. But the armor having a bug on just the EAD isn't possible. Its the same armor on all ships. Its the same weapons - the only thing that varies is the level and the number, and those things aren't bugged.. or couldn't be on a single ship, as no ship has a level only to itself. Plus the calculations would be odd enough that it'd be noticeable elsewhere as well.
In any case, having one specific ship be bugged in the way you wondered about would be very difficult to manage.
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Sauur
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: November 30, 2004
Posts: 475
| Posted: 2009-02-05 17:38
U hulled an EAD with just 5 luth dreads, well done but you should have just been quietly proud of it and kept this information from the forums. But no - u had to boast. 
Prepare to be nerfed!
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-05 17:49
I'm gonna try to test this later on the beta server. I want to see just how much damage an EAD takes from 1 Kluth dread. I'll use a mandible since they have a stronger alpha, and I'll first test vs standard armor then vs reflective. I'll see just how much armor that alpha removes.
I will let you know the results, but I'm predicting right now that it will be shown that the EAD does indeed take decent damage. After thinking about what's been going on the past few weeks in the MV, I'm suspecting it's a server issue. I'm suspecting that when many players are on, and many players are firing at the same target, the server is not registering all the damage. What other explanation can there be for a missile destroyer to only take minor damage to it's armor from a siphon's alpha? There's no way it has [i]that]/i] much armor, and it did take damage it's not like no damage was done at all. I suspect the server isn't registering all the damage sometimes.
We've all been seeing crazy desync issues so it's entirely possible.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-05 17:49
Quote:
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On 2009-02-05 17:38, Sauur wrote:
U hulled an EAD with just 5 luth dreads, well done but you should have just been quietly proud of it and kept this information from the forums. But no - u had to boast.
Prepare to be nerfed!
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[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2009-02-05 17:50 ]
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