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Forcing players into smaller ships |
ThePile
Vice Admiral
Deicide
Joined: June 27, 2010
Posts: 39
From: ThePile
|  Posted: 2010-07-09 14:15
I have seen many of you debating or discussing things like the devs "forcing" people into smaller ships. If anything I feel that what they have done is forcing the players to teamplay in order to win.
And some of you have even come with a reasoning that "forcing players into smaller ships" will only make people bitter and that the REAL solution is to make people WANT to play the smaller ships.
Issues like the smaller ships need more balancing etc. have been brought up.
I can agree that additional balacning might be needed, that I'm sure the devs are looking into that. But if we put balancing aside - my question is this:
How are we going to make people want to play smaller ships, when alot of the dreadlovers have some kind of fetisch for big ships? This is where I think the problem is.
You can balance this game all you want, but in the end - the people loving their dreads are still loving their dreads. And they will QQ until this becomes dreadspace again.
So the question is more like: "How do we make smaller ships attractive for people who have a fetisch for bigass ships?"
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-07-09 14:20
People like flying the big ships because they're the best. They wouldn't fly them otherwise. Thats the short and simple of it.
The Dev's refuse to put smaller ships at a level footing with Dreadnaughts, so instead of making everything equal, they just make Dreadnaughts harder to get.
The thinking is, if Dreads are hard to get, people are more willing to try to fly smaller ships. And its actually possible to fly smaller ships then, because then you don't have to be in a Dread to counter a dread, because Dread fleets don't exist.
No dread fleets, no station fleets, and the Station and the Dread is significantly less powerful. Instead of 2 dreads and 6 cruisers vs. 8 dreads its level. Thats the point of resource system.
Dreadnaughts are powerful but by design they're supposed to be rarer than cruisers and destroyers, otherwise in fleets they're too powerful. Thats why people are being "forced" back into small ships because by game design there should be more of them.
-Ent
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Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2010-07-09 15:37
you want em in smaller ships...fine....change the rank requirements.
no matter what you do..ppl are gonna bitch gripe and moan.
yes me included.
But that also gives you reason to rank up.no reason what so ever to get to CM other than just the rank itself.
AD/EAD/Krill...GA + combat-transport-nav plat badges
line/battle/Hive...Marshall + combat-supply-transport plat badges
SCB/CS...chief marshall + comabt -supply-transport-engy plat badges
all other ships stay at rank and badges...
no ones gonna like this but hey...no one ever likes everything.
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El Guapo
Chief Marshal
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 276
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
| Posted: 2010-07-09 15:43
Quote:
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On 2010-07-09 15:37, Fatal Command (CO) wrote:
you want em in smaller ships...fine....change the rank requirements.
no matter what you do..ppl are gonna bitch gripe and moan.
yes me included.
But that also gives you reason to rank up.no reason what so ever to get to CM other than just the rank itself.
AD/EAD/Krill...GA + combat-transport-nav plat badges
line/battle/Hive...Marshall + combat-supply-transport plat badges
SCB/CS...chief marshall + comabt -supply-transport-engy plat badges
all other ships stay at rank and badges...
no ones gonna like this but hey...no one ever likes everything.
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No what I think this is is a counter to the UGTO's Station spam. I personally like the idea of a cool down version.
Mind you the k'luth players never minded the Uggie's station spam, gave us more to feed on.... 
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NaNoBuM
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2004
Posts: 6
| Posted: 2010-07-09 16:18
I have only one thing to say about smaller ships.
If you make them fast, they will come.
Enought said.
NaNo
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-07-09 16:29
Nobody forces players into smaller ships. This is wrong point of view. When you become a dev, you spend more time worrying about the game than enjoy the game. Viceversa for players. Devs are worry about people getting GA in 30 game play and fly stations in near future. They try to stop various problem in one solution which brings alot of QQ.
Simple solution : Station avalable to players who are subed to game. (make money = improve the game)
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Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CC*
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: February 08, 2010
Posts: 540
From: Spokane WA.
| Posted: 2010-07-09 19:52
It's not that we don't like the smaller ship it's we work hard to get our rank up so we can use the big ships. It's a privlege to use dreads or stations.Alot of players strive for getting rank so they can get these biigger ships. Loose the dreads or staions and alot of players will stop playing.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-07-09 20:03
Quote:
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On 2010-07-09 19:52, Died~1000~Deaths wrote:
It's not that we don't like the smaller ship it's we work hard to get our rank up so we can use the big ships. It's a privlege to use dreads or stations.Alot of players strive for getting rank so they can get these biigger ships. Loose the dreads or staions and alot of players will stop playing.
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I can get the rank and badge requirements to fly a Dreadnaught in a week, only playing four hours a day. Big ships aren't hard to get. They're laughably easy to get. You might have worked for your rank, whatever is now, but big ships aren't hard to get. At all.
Sorry, but not everyone has the same mentality of ranking up just to use bigger ships. For me, more rank means more options. Far better than just being able to use one ship and kill everything, thats boring gameplay.
-Ent
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-07-09 20:08
Quote:
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On 2010-07-09 15:37, Fatal Command (CO) wrote:
you want em in smaller ships...fine....change the rank requirements.
no matter what you do..ppl are gonna bitch gripe and moan.
yes me included.
But that also gives you reason to rank up.no reason what so ever to get to CM other than just the rank itself.
AD/EAD/Krill...GA + combat-transport-nav plat badges
line/battle/Hive...Marshall + combat-supply-transport plat badges
SCB/CS...chief marshall + comabt -supply-transport-engy plat badges
all other ships stay at rank and badges...
no ones gonna like this but hey...no one ever likes everything.
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you only shift the problem to a later time, those, who would lost their ship, will get it back at a later date
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Lithium
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2003
Posts: 109
| Posted: 2010-07-09 20:16
Atleast the dictors are smaller than the dreads. So fly them more 
It also needs smaller ships to chase the dictors.
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-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
| Posted: 2010-07-09 21:28
If you make this game any harder to get big ships people will just not play. As much a the dev's want the game to be about team work in the end people are playing to get bigger ships and it's soon time the dev's realize that and stop nerfing what is keeping this game going.
Stop people from taking out dreads and stations they will stop using and buying more credits for enhancments and once again DS will be out of players and getting no money.
Were you all on a bad high when you came up with the idea to get people out of big ships?
[ This Message was edited by: Daedalus on 2010-07-09 22:48 ]
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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2010-07-09 22:46
Stop theorycrafting and go play. It's still fun.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-07-09 23:12
Quote:
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On 2010-07-09 14:20, Enterprise wrote:
Dreadnaughts are powerful but by design they're supposed to be rarer than cruisers and destroyers, otherwise in fleets they're too powerful. Thats why people are being "forced" back into small ships because by game design there should be more of them.
-Ent
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By game design once upon a time there were more of them. Cruisers and destroyers were the preferred ships.
And I don't mean in 1.483 because I hated that version so much I quit for 2 years.
(Kluth cruisers suck btw, save for the scarab which is a whole different kind of ship)
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-10 10:56
The obvious solution would be to make the smaller ships; ie dessies n below, so difficult (or near impossible) to hit by dreads and stations that
- ppl will pull out lots of small ships when they see a dread-station spam
- counter small ship assault by pulling their own small ships
To achieve this, small ships will need:
- speed n manuverability increase
- less beam, more projectile n missile weaps
- reduce the weap damage levelling by increasing their weaps damage
while big ships will need
- projectile weap speed decrease
When the small ships become more lethal to the heavies, players will naturally gravitate towards them.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-07-10 11:12
Smaller ships already ARE almost impossible to hit unless the pilot has no skill and tries to knife fight with them. A competent pilot can even avoid most fire from multiple DNs in a Cruiser at around 600 GU, without any form of speed or turning enhancements.
Why do you think I constantly suggest people get out of the "Oh no a dread, I better get in my own dread to counter it!" mindset and use smaller ships instead?
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