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[1.6] Feedback and Bugs |
warlord 1050
Admiral
Joined: April 05, 2006
Posts: 19
|  Posted: 2011-01-24 08:03
idea's and concerns about damage to ships from planets:
* you could let the damage/sec. increase if a ship comes closer to the planet (theory: less chance to dodge if the distance decreases).
with this system the range of the planetary defenses can be increased above 500 gu without making things imba.
* you can follow 2 possibilities for damage dealing:
- each enemy ship in range is damaged for a fixed amount of damage (currently) or
- damage from planets is a fixed number spread over all enemy ships in range so more enemy ships means less damage to each ship.
Maybe this is a useful alternative idea?
* currently the range of planetary defenses is about 500 gu, in the past this was a lot bigger (for missile defenses for example).
In most threats on the forums it's always about ships capping planets, the damage done to planets with bombing and how good a planet and allied ships can defend the planet from enemy ships.
But one element i liked in the past is the visa versa, that planets could act up to some extend to protect allied ships (because they had a large attack range), if your team is for example outnumbered at that moment (Although large planet camping is a too extreme form of this and is not desirable). Now with the 500 gu range limit, enemy ships can much easier attack allied ships in orbit without the planet able to defend.
I hope a alternative can be found (planet defenses range increase or another way), possibly one of the above suggestions might help? Otherwise outnumbered factions wont be able to do anything at all, not even retreat to a safe place because a planet's defenses become ineffective to protect allied ships and allied planet's aren't safer then any other place in the metaverse any more.
(Platforms not taken into account.)
[ This Message was edited by: warlord 1050 on 2011-01-24 08:08 ]
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-01-24 18:22
Think we can get stations and dreads not to count for planet cap.
just an idea, would be nice to see fleets of cruisers in a high speed battle for controle of a planet while in orbit. Instead of a station infestation 
as i said in another post. They bomb, fight, tank, build, mine, tranny...
i dont blame people for choosing them this version to assault a planet with. you would be insane not to.
just my two cents
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-01-24 19:48
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On 2011-01-24 08:03, warlord 1050 wrote:
* currently the range of planetary defenses is about 500 gu, in the past this was a lot bigger (for missile defenses for example).
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Even though I've yet to try 1.6, I have to agree here.
Maybe the influence zone should remain at 500 gus, but the defence range of the planet should be the same as its dico field right? At 1000?
I remember being pelted by missiles from planets at range 1500....
Damage could be dished out gradually.
1500 to 1000, less damage. 1000 to 500, more damage. 500 to 0, even more damage. Something along that line.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-01-24 19:50 ]
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2011-01-24 20:23
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On 2011-01-24 19:48, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Damage could be dished out gradually.
1500 to 1000, less damage. 1000 to 500, more damage. 500 to 0, even more damage. Something along that line.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-01-24 19:50 ]
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+1 and and damage buff as well
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-01-24 20:36
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On 2011-01-24 07:54, Saint Valentine wrote:
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On 2011-01-24 07:31, Fatal DarkCloudd *COM* wrote:
I have a suggestion of a small change to the way Infantry drop pods work right now.
As it stands with the new system any Infantry pod you launch at a plant will hit since there is no planetary PD system to shoot them down. I was wondering how hard it would be to make it so that the amount of PD on a planet reduces the health of the Infantry by that percent. So a planet with 35% pd, any enemy infantry would land with 65% health and not 100%.
Right now the defending infantry have no sort of advantage since every pod will land. If the enemy infantry's health is reduced then it would make it so the defenders still have a small advantage.
If it sounds silly thats fine its just my thinking on it, but since the ally AI arent very good at moving infantry to planets that need it then when there is low population on a faction they are going to get over penalized because they are going to have to spend alot more time running infantry around on planets and not being able to defend them against attack.
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal DarkCloudd *COM* on 2011-01-24 07:35 ]
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Well the problem then becomes, if a planet has 100% PD, how do you land anything? How do you bomb anything? You can't. Its an invincible planet.
The original inf on the planet still have the advantage. They gain a boost from the PD % on the planet so I've been told, so they are always stronger than the enemy inf that land.
Infantry alone isn't enough, because razing a simple Tier 1 Structure with ten inf takes MUCH longer. Inf rushing a planet isn't an option so much as an added bonus to help take the planet quicker, just like with bombing.
-Ent
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ok a peice of advice
to get 100 % pd you have to have pure point defence bases now considering point defence bases offensive capiblility are easy to laugh at just orbit with 5 ships and take the hits.
and a number of people are also asking whether ai effect control
answer yes they do anyone else that thinks they do not better go take another look you may be very suprised
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Strategery
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: December 07, 2002
Posts: 522
From: Straight Outta Boston!
| Posted: 2011-01-24 21:01
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ok a peice of advice
to get 100 % pd you have to have pure point defence bases now considering point defence bases offensive capiblility are easy to laugh at just orbit with 5 ships and take the hits.
and a number of people are also asking whether ai effect control
answer yes they do anyone else that thinks they do not better go take another look you may be very suprised
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AI clearly effect control. Saw this occur in scenario while testing the new system. Was able to cap a planet in about 5 minutes with a few AI ships near the planet.
[*Note*] After a conversation with a fellow player, there was a rumor of this being considered an exploit. I then promptly went to a mod to get clarification. Apparently, IT IS an EXPLOIT if you are using the order system. It's not if they just happen to be in the area due to a firefight going on.
It should be documented as such in the forums or RoC, as it clearly isn't at this time. So simply put, don't do it. It is apparently being adjusted in some way.
Also, for the record, great update from my perspective. As long as the issue of the planetary defenses is being worked on, no complaints from this player as of this point.
Seems to have put an end to planet camping, at least temporarily....
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ICC Master Battle Strategist (ret.)
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-01-24 21:04
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On 2011-01-24 21:01, Strategery wrote:
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ok a peice of advice
to get 100 % pd you have to have pure point defence bases now considering point defence bases offensive capiblility are easy to laugh at just orbit with 5 ships and take the hits.
and a number of people are also asking whether ai effect control
answer yes they do anyone else that thinks they do not better go take another look you may be very suprised
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AI clearly effect control. Saw this occur in scenario while testing the new system. Was able to cap a planet in about 5 minutes with a few AI ships near the planet.
[*Note*] After a conversation with a fellow player, there was a rumor of this being considered an exploit. I then promptly went to a mod to get clarification. Apparently, IT IS an EXPLOIT if you are using the order system. It's not if they just happen to be in the area due to a firefight going on.
It should be documented as such in the forums or RoC, as it clearly isn't at this time. So simply put, don't do it. It is apparently being adjusted in some way.
Also, for the record, great update from my perspective. As long as the issue of the planetary defenses is being worked on, no complaints from this player as of this point.
Seems to have put an end to planet camping, at least temporarily....
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sadly people do it i am still trying to figure out whether this system has caused more problems then it has solved.
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Scorched Soul[+R]
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 378
From: USA, NJ, Princeton
| Posted: 2011-01-24 21:18
the new planet capping system has potiential but as it is now it is exactly the same system we had before with an extrastep added on. although now the extrastep is often carried out first leading to people bombing their own planets to get rid of the enemy infantry. other wise you move in fight off the enemy then capture the planet then go on to the next battle and planet only to lose ground as fast as you gain it or go through the steps of the old system of bombing and ferrying infantry and just have people drawing up the hind quarters cleaning up the mess your making.
It doesn't have to be super effiecient but if you go through the effort to capture the planet i dont think its unreasonable to give an effiecient method of getting rid of enemy infantry on a recently captured planet that doesnt require large quantities of bombs or infantry.
To sum it all up what i would really enjoy in a new planet capping system is something that would alow you to form a raiding party go out fight over a planet capture it and move on to the next without an assembaly line of people behind you.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-01-24 21:26
You will need to bomb the infantry off the planet before you move on - we won't be revolting the infantry once a planet has captured. This is to give the original defenders a chance to regain control of the planet once it has turned. Think of it as a 'grace' period.
We're currently making changes to the system so that over a certain number of ships, no-matter how many ships are in orbit of a planet, the capture timer will never be less than 5 minutes.
You'll likely see the changes released tonight.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2011-01-24 21:36 ]
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-01-24 21:33
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On 2011-01-24 21:26, BackSlash wrote:
You will need to bomb the infantry off the planet before you move on - we won't be revolting the infantry once a planet has captured. This is to give the original defenders a chance to regain control of the planet once it has turned. Think of it as a 'grace' period.
We're currently making changes to the system so that over a certain number of ships, no-matter how many ships are in orbit of a planet, the capture timer will never be less than 5 minutes.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2011-01-24 21:27 ]
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still waiting to test the defence base hotfix
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-01-24 21:57
I say the strategy to capture the planet first, then give my feedback.
There are 3 general strategies to capture a planet by invidual, I don't consider red player as problem to concentrate on the strategy.
- A) Bomb style
- Tranny style
- Number style
Steps
(1) Build 4 supply platform 2000gu+ to the planet as Human (1500gu+ as Luth) and 3 wep plats cover them. Assuming you have 25000 resource (Engineer full cargo). Demand AI to defend them.
(2) Cloud bomb (running at 15gu/sec and spamming bomb to one structure) Dome or Food bases (or any structures that will deactivate the def bases), return before entering influence range. Command dread with 1 scanner, 2 ECM, tractoring 1 sup plat is recommended. If you can't get the command dread, get the best bomber you can, with the exception to bomber scout and command dread.
(3) Tractor your plats into the influence range while bombing all inf on the planet. Start with the sequence wep - sup - wep - sup... If you use a bomber, demand AI to defend you.
(4) Orbiting the planet and unload all your infs onto planet. Bomb Barrack and Black Market.
Explanation
(1) There are AIs in game, you need weapon plat to push them away and act as decoy for supply plat. If you use MD/MC, feel free to build plats as far as scanner can see the planet.
(2) AI engineer will automatically repair the structure so you need to cloud bomb to definitely destroy a structure in each run. Besides, AIs combat will provide the PDs so you need ECM to hide your bombs.
(3) Keep in mind that def bases shoot ALL red objects regardless its location.
(4) Destroy Barrack to prevent red inf. Destroy Starport to prevent AI transport.
Problems
- All red AIs.
- The toughness of structure.
As memory serves, to take down the barrack require at least 6 Mirvs (approximately 10 TK). Now all structures have double HP. According to % PD on planet, it will require much more bombs. Example: 6 * 2 / (100% - 5 * 5%) = 16 Mirvs (27TKs) to destroy a barrack when planet has 5 def II. Build a barrack takes 20 seconds with one building drone. That's why I recommend to bomb Food or Dome. You won't have time to bomb 5-minutes-Cortex trust me.
Feedback
- Although planet no longer has PD, destroy a structure is ridiculously difficult. I can approve that Bomb style is the hardest, longest and most dangerous, complex strategy to capture a planet. I was totally exhausted when I tried this style although I did not even deactivate def base.
- When a planet has a shield on it, I know it's impossible to capture with this plan.
- To make it easier, there should be Anti sensor plat in game to hide the plats. It's a must to increase the number, power, speed and cooldown of all kinds of bombs. Simply to say, switch Mirv with PSM and TK with Shock (modify Shock to planetary missle). It would be nice for Jim to enhance bomber ship just weaker than assualt ship at close range and has 1 tractor beam.
- Adjust def base. Bomb I 5%PD, 1 worker 10 power 20 tech. Oh please! I have mentioned about requirement of def bases in my previous post, now I would add some to it: off I, def I, bomb I, off II, def II, bomb II respectively provides 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 percentage to planet PD.
- Disable auto transport from Black Market. Not only they provide free PD for a planet, but also they make sure resouce on the planet always under 10 000 and be an easy target for farming. Counterproductive.
Lesson
- Don't proceed plan A. The prestige gain does not worth your effort. Most of the time, you shall have a rich diversity of negative emotion. However, you can always farming bombing prestige this way.
- If you want a tough planet, build it with 70 tech, 10 bombs I and barracks, sensor is no longer necessary. Adding a shield will completely seal bombing idea.
Steps
(1) Build barracks on 3 planets, each has 6, produce heavy inf. Modify the planet to has high PD by upgrading off and def to bomb I.
(2) Spawn heavy carrier and get infantry on 3 inf farms.
(3) Unload inf on destined planet when you can press U, unless there is ship PD near it, then retreat. Command AIs to attack the planet..
(4) Log in SY. Remove the old one. Spawn new one and repeat steps 1 to 3.
(5) When all ref inf are gone, raze barrack(s) and other structures to deactivate PD.
(6) Command AIs to defend you. Use an engineer, orbit the planet and build wep plat.
Explanation
(1) Choose the planet so that AI transport can't jump directly to it but you can jump near the gate.
(3) Of course bombing will give you pres but the longer you stay within influence range, the more AIs shall defend that planet.
(4) AI transport will try rush your planet so take advantage of 4 extra inf already on carrier.
(6) You can build wep plats and sup plats then tractor wep plat inside the influence range.
Problems
- Player who disagrees with this plan will not allow you to proceed step 1.
- All red AIs.
- Number of planets.
Feedback
- Still take lots of time as inf only do (100% - %PD) damage. However, you don't have to mine for resouce; you don't worry about the ship as you can spawn new one immidiately.
- When you manage to get inf under 20, AI transport will appear to help you. Nice!
- Planet only block projectile, it allows beam, hilarious. Since every ship pay the same weight to planet control, I hope planet shall block beam so that small ship has a chance to hide.
Lesson
- Do this when you have more planets in the cluster than enemy.
- From 1.6 towards, instead of sensors, build barracks.
Steps
(1) Gather all AIs to defend you. Mining while fill them with inf.
(2) Prepare command dread with 4 inf 10 000 res, mining beam, bomber fighter or command station with 9 inf and 20 000 res, mining beam, assualt fighter.
(3) Orbit destined planet, mine and build supply plats outside the influence range while bombing inf and barrack(s) if using dread or structure to deactivate PD if using station.
(4) When all red inf gone, unload your inf onto the planet.
Explanation
(1) Give them inf so that it's harder to capture them.
(2) You can't kill any inf with bomber fighter trust me. So it's wise to use fighters on station to kill engineer.
(3) Build sup plat before you orbit the planet so it will repair you. You repair the AIs, especially the small ships.
Feedback
- When you're rich, you don't desperately need the help of players. Even Paris Hilton can capture the whole cluster. Alone.
- Clearly you should bomb red infantry left on the planet after you capture it. Sounds ironic.
- Command dread may have 1 mining beam and 1 tractor beam, 2 drones since it doesn't have sup drone. Bomber fighter must have 10 bombs and the reload time is 30 seconds instead of 40.
- It's ok that every def base fires at all objects instead of 1. It's easier that projectile can be blocked. A def base shall launch 5 projectiles at 5 objects, but the projectiles may not hit all targets due to obstacle (not planet itself).
Lesson
- What money can't do, more money can. With money, you can buy teamwork.
- Now you care of pressing A after F2. Don't underestimate AIs.
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2011-01-24 22:45 ]
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-01-24 22:40
a it is now illegal to order ai to defend you when your caping a planet plain and simple
b we trying hard to make defence bases actually useful and your still screaming for them to be nerfed if you don't want the bloody things all you have to do is ask.
c. they removed pd lasers and missles and replaced it with pd percentage to reduce planet based lag so please stop asking for it to be nerfed this is not the first time i have seen you ask something to be nerfed because it is now harder planets before were way to easy to cap. a extra cycle has been added.
(that was asking for them to reducing the pd percentage which in its own right was misguided)
[ This Message was edited by: jamesbob on 2011-01-24 22:42 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-01-25 03:45
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On 2011-01-24 22:40, jamesbob wrote:
it is now illegal to order ai to defend you when your caping a planet plain and simple
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I wonder why this should be so. Illegal to order AI ships to defend you? Then why not eliminate AI altogether?
If you only have 1 player on your team, and the other team has 6, AI will make your game playable in terms of planet caps. They are valid ships, and should not be considered an exploit.
On the other hand, perhaps AI ships influence should be halved to prevent spamming.
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-01-25 03:49
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On 2011-01-25 03:45, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
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On 2011-01-24 22:40, jamesbob wrote:
it is now illegal to order ai to defend you when your caping a planet plain and simple
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I wonder why this should be so. Illegal to order AI ships to defend you? Then why not eliminate AI altogether?
If you only have 1 player on your team, and the other team has 6, AI will make your game playable in terms of planet caps. They are valid ships, and should not be considered an exploit.
On the other hand, perhaps AI ships influence should be halved to prevent spamming.
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thats kinda the point devs say they shouldn't be able to cap at all sadly they can unless it was intentional its a glitch and we all know game glitch abuse for personal gain of stats like the planet glitch with that gas is against the roc (for the record the missle and fighter spam glitch is actually a server processing problem due to overload of data it is not a game glitch its a hardware issue. i think i got that one right please advise if i did not)
but i do agree ai influence should be halfed unless its a engi because you can't spam them
[ This Message was edited by: jamesbob on 2011-01-25 03:56 ]
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-01-25 04:55
Interesting how the new system has eliminated revolts. No more yellow planets. Morale is pointless now, as every planet has martial law imposed on it.
Do something about it.
Also, +1 to halving influence of AI ships on planet capture.
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