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In light of recent changes.... |
jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
|  Posted: 2010-05-31 23:12
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On 2010-05-31 22:51, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
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On 2010-05-31 14:15, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
This is the reason I suggested removing them completely and adding in something easier to balance, a pure cloak only faction vs 2 factions that have no creditable anti cloak device, is something impossible to balance. If the ECCM ping was fixed, then cloak would become OP again as there would be NO way to find a luth once it went under. Something like a anti cloak platform or ship (like the dico but with an anti cloak instead of a interdictor), would be a good replacement for ECCM ping. All of those ideas are good, but as soon as someone suggests something that completely decloaks Kluth, they are yelled and screamed at.
If no good ideas exist to balance the cloak, the remove it completely and replace it with a different faction all together. Humans fighting a civil war, thats normal for any game. A faction that has supreme dominance by completely hiding themselves, is not good for balance. This has been said, time and time again, and it will be said (and has been) again.
Kluth look good on paper, and the story is good, but they don't work game wise. If ICC and UGTO merged into one faction, that would be fine but again it wouldn't work game mechanically. Its like putting a puzzle piece in the wrong place, ICC and UGTO mesh together nicely but Kluth is this other piece that has been cut down to "fit" into the puzzle.
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The problem with you and like minded people is that, your only approach to something that you have difficulty dealing with is to whine for a nerf or removal of said thing.
Learn from what Azreal said. Use a combination of scouts and escort dessie to pin down Kluths.
Do you have what it takes? Don't tell me the only thing that people like you want to do is to get into your big bad ships, be able to see the enemy, and just mash your spacebar? Or target a very visible enemy from afar and then spam them with missiles?
We get it. You're the long range faction, so you should be able to see your enemies from afar and kill them. If an enemy is able to get in close to you, something's wrong. Nerf them!! If we were to equip UGTO only with an anti scanner ECM/stealth device which allows them to be untargetable till 300gus away, you would then start to complain about them next?
OK? Now, rant aside.
UGTO did this with great effect earlier against myself and another cruiser. They deployed one picket dessie and a scout, followed by a couple of dreads. Continous ECCM pinging, followed by beacon shots put me on the complete defensive. I had to dodge left and right to avoid beacons, and at the same time, incoming fire.
Every ping revealed me for 3 seconds. Enough for QSTs and PCs to come my way.... and hopefully a beacon wasn't aimed where I was dodging. Either way I had to eJump out after 2 minutes of this and being hulled to 50%, and without a chance to even decloak to shoot back.
THAT's called using your grey matter to counter Kluth.
Credit to UGTO.
NOT your whining to nerf cloak. NOT your whining to remove an entire faction from the game.
You want to put Kluth to AI and make MI a playable faction? You'll whine about them soon enough when you feel upfront how powerful the Nodes and Longheads are. Imagine all the ranked Kluth players hitting you guys head on with Longheads and Nodes.
Cry wolf.....
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-05-31 23:06 ]
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sorry about this but i happen to agree with you not a day goes by when icc don't wine shut up about it your getting shields that can allow you to retreat or get back into action quickly so shut up about it ok.
*edit* oh and if your going to say i am a liar please look at the dev log and you will find in beta x4 regen x8 drain for defence mode XD its useful for quick shield regen slap that on a active and what you get.
[ This Message was edited by: jackbob on 2010-05-31 23:15 ]
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-05-31 23:17
yes, lets use a combination of scouts and escort dessies to pin down all those kluth dreads.
owait.
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xTx
Chief Marshal
Joined: September 10, 2005
Posts: 101
From: Canada
| Posted: 2010-05-31 23:22
The funniest thing about this whole discussion is how kluth players pretend their faction is weak and hard to play, when in reality the kluth faction is the easiest and has the best weapons compared to the human factions. Where ugto and icc need to sped credits to enhance their weapons, kluth do not. Kluth can put all their enhancements on armor, therefore creating a ship with the best weapons plus uber armor and cloak as a bonus. THere lies the problem with kluth. The reality is, with enhancements kluth do not have paper armor, can uncloak next to an enemy and alpha with the best weapons in the game. WHATS NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THAT.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-31 23:38
LOL.
I've seen human faction players come to Kluth and then get killed pretty fast on their first tour.
Those are the guys that decloak next to your ships and then do the Alpha thing, thinking that they own faces. They got killed instead when they couldn't finish what they started, and then couldn't get away either.
Easy to play?
You guys speak as if you don't have enhancements on you that also increase your shields, armor, or firepower.....
Laughable.
What YOU want is to make the game easy to play..... for you.....
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-06-01 00:07 ]
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Lunatiq
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 292
From: Phoenix, AZ
| Posted: 2010-05-31 23:46
** On 2010-05-31 16:28, MrSparkle wrote:
Oh also, mines were boosted to a point of potential usefulness, but notice how only Kluth mines are actually useful. That's a combination of the fact that EMP mines are useless and only Kluth get cruiser-level mines.
*** So now even though mines still need work, or ICC and UGTO need minelayer cruisers at the very least, torpedoes now need a boost. Doesn't have to be a damage boost, a reduction in energy usage and increased speed is all they need.***
+1
** xTx said: "The funniest thing about this whole discussion is how kluth players pretend their faction is weak and hard to play, when in reality the kluth faction is the easiest and has the best weapons compared to the human factions. Where ugto and icc need to sped credits to enhance their weapons, kluth do not. Kluth can put all their enhancements on armor, therefore creating a ship with the best weapons plus uber armor and cloak as a bonus. THere lies the problem with kluth. *** The reality is, with enhancements kluth do not have paper armor, can uncloak next to an enemy and alpha with the best weapons in the game. WHATS NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THAT. ***"
+1
Lots of theories and opinions. But opinions are like..... noses.... everyone has one and they all smell... 
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-31 23:54
There's a lot of bitterness floating around. Please everyone try to reread your posts a couple times. There's no need for talking down to people, implying everyone who disagrees with you to be unskilled or stupid. This is an internet forum after all, we all lose 20 IQ just for being here - we don't need to make it any worse.
Just to touch on the beacon scouts thing again... as I've mentioned before players really don't get rewarded for that kind of work. I'm sure if they did we'd see a lot more. Players aren't stupid, they just want Pres.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-01 00:22
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On 2010-05-31 23:54, Lonectzn wrote:
There's a lot of bitterness floating around. Please everyone try to reread your posts a couple times. There's no need for talking down to people, implying everyone who disagrees with you to be unskilled or stupid. This is an internet forum after all, we all lose 20 IQ just for being here - we don't need to make it any worse.
Just to touch on the beacon scouts thing again... as I've mentioned before players really don't get rewarded for that kind of work. I'm sure if they did we'd see a lot more. Players aren't stupid, they just want Pres.
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Lets make it so that every time you shoot a beacon and it lands, instead of 1 pres you get 50 or more! Then people would be in nothing but scouts becasue of all the pres.
You have a point, half the reason people don't want to be in a scout is the craptastic pres you get, and you die when a luth so much as looks at you the wrong way. The other reason is, firepower. When you are outnumbered, or on even numbers with another faction, you need every gun you can get to repel them. Thats why people don't like scouting, I myself get in one randomly when I feel like it and when I have the garage space to waist on one.
If every ship had a beacon on it, then there would be no issue to be had, and everyone would be able to counter a luth assault. There is a severe lack of ships with beacons, you have a dessy and a scout, 2 ships that die in a blink of an eye from a luth alpha. A cruiser with a few beacons or an anti cloak device would be nice, then you would have 3 ships that could counter the cloak. With those 3 and a fix to the cloak so ECCM ping no longer works, would bring to it some balance again. Still need to give players an incentive to WANT to be in those ships, thats why everyone likes dread/station battles. Those battles give sooo much pres, where as cruiser or below fights are almost meaningless in comparison to what you could gain in a dread.
@kenny, Shut up, your a noob and you don't know what you are talking about. You attack people with no other proposition to help fix the issue you are talking about. If you want to discuss with people about things, then give an alternative to what they are saying. So far you have not done this.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-01 00:23
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On 2010-05-31 23:54, Lonectzn wrote:
There's a lot of bitterness floating around. Please everyone try to reread your posts a couple times. There's no need for talking down to people, implying everyone who disagrees with you to be unskilled or stupid. This is an internet forum after all, we all lose 20 IQ just for being here - we don't need to make it any worse.
Just to touch on the beacon scouts thing again... as I've mentioned before players really don't get rewarded for that kind of work. I'm sure if they did we'd see a lot more. Players aren't stupid, they just want Pres.
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Posts toned down.
Can't blame it really. When a certain faction calls for the complete removal of another faction or one of its defining features, it really reflects on the way they operate and think.
I've actually suggested stuff to buff ICC in the past... like torpedoes which disrupt cloak for Kluths in a small radius when detted.
It's a pity that when it comes to their own players, they're looking to nerf other factions, even after getting a shield buff that's being tested out now.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-01 00:34
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On 2010-06-01 00:22, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
@kenny, Shut up, your a noob and you don't know what you are talking about. You attack people with no other proposition to help fix the issue you are talking about. If you want to discuss with people about things, then give an alternative to what they are saying. So far you have not done this.
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LOL. In the past I've contributed ideas for ICC, eg. Cloak disrupter torpedoes.
http://www.darkspace.net/index.htm?module=forums.php&page=/viewtopic.php?topic=48252&forum=1&117
But right now, I don't think you guys deserve any positive feedback after talking down other factions and begging for their nerfing or even complete removal.
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xTx
Chief Marshal
Joined: September 10, 2005
Posts: 101
From: Canada
| Posted: 2010-06-01 00:49
Darkspace will never be a success until kluth is dropped. KLuth players should think about what their uber faction is doing to the over all game.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-06-01 01:24
The K'luth backstory and design is all around the idea of being a new disruptive force. This I think is a great thing and they do it really well.
Things always need continual reassessment in online games, but I don't think all these problems are as extreme as they are made out in the forums.
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2010-06-01 01:38
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On 2010-06-01 00:49, xTx wrote:
Darkspace will never be a success until kluth is dropped. KLuth players should think about what their uber faction is doing to the over all game.
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i would like to believe your post had even a gram of logics but sadly it does not. in fact if the devs were forced to do that i believe they wouldn't be happy having wasted all the time and effort on the kluth faction and changing stuff related to it (all because of whining icc players that can't fly for beans i might add the players that are veterans only do it to be smart)
what this lets remove kluth posts is going to cause is a bad headache and nothing else get it in your head they will NEVER remove kluth unless every single player leaves because of kluth.
which i might add has about the same chance as me playing left wing in the world cup which is zilch 0 nada nothing not a chance in hell.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-01 02:18
LOL. After a while, I don't even take these whiners seriously anymore. Might as well just turn every "Remove Kluth" thread into a flamefest and get it locked.
edit:
OK back to track.
Perhaps what the ICC needs is the cloak disrupt torp idea I was mentioning some time before. A torp that when detted, disrupts and decloaks any cloaked object within a 150 gu radius, and then disables the cloak for another few seconds.
Make this torp exclusive only to the ICC.... and even then, only 1 or 2 of their ships would have it. Definitely not a scout. They already have beacons. Ammo should be limited too, just like bombs. Get supps to follow the ships around if they wanna keep up the fire.
Maybe, give the escort dessie the torp, and remove the beacon.
And give it to one of the cruisers too. But not the Assault, Heavy or Dictor. They might need a new cruiser class just for this.
In return, reduce the cumulative effectiveness of ECCM on cloak times, as mentioned by Spartanz, Pak, and Azrael earlier.
When ECCMs are stacked, instead of 1 - 2 - 3x effectiveness.... make it, as they said to perhaps 1 - 1.8 - 2.6x... or something to that effect.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-06-01 03:30 ]
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-01 04:05
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On 2010-06-01 01:38, jackbob wrote:
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On 2010-06-01 00:49, xTx wrote:
Darkspace will never be a success until kluth is dropped. KLuth players should think about what their uber faction is doing to the over all game.
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i would like to believe your post had even a gram of logics but sadly it does not. in fact if the devs were forced to do that i believe they wouldn't be happy having wasted all the time and effort on the kluth faction and changing stuff related to it (all because of whining icc players that can't fly for beans i might add the players that are veterans only do it to be smart)
what this lets remove kluth posts is going to cause is a bad headache and nothing else get it in your head they will NEVER remove kluth unless every single player leaves because of kluth.
which i might add has about the same chance as me playing left wing in the world cup which is zilch 0 nada nothing not a chance in hell.
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You may not know this but many players have left the game because of Kluth, some to never come back.
This is why we are asking for them to be removed, they were never part of the original game, and were added for some unknown reason.
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WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-01 04:15
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On 2010-06-01 04:05, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
You may not know this but many players have left the game because of Kluth, some to never come back.
This is why we are asking for them to be removed, they were never part of the original game, and were added for some unknown reason.
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And removing a faction that has numerous players won't cause more players to leave the game? Those who're part of said faction?
And you're hoping that those who have left earliler will return?
Not all ICC players think like the few of you extremists do apparently.
To put it bluntly, if you left the game entirely in frustration, I definitely won't miss the few of you.
But that's not the point, and DS does need the playerbase. So instead of whining for a nerf or removal of other factions, why not just focus on how we can buff certain aspects of your faction to make you more competitive?
Olive branch.
- as above, cloak disrupter torp
- Or how about a counter-cloak field mounted on one of your specialist vessels?
This counter-cloak field will have a radius of say.... 200gus, and will glow somewhat like the dictor field (but in a diff color hopefully to avoid confusion).
Now, it won't drop the cloak of a Kluth. But it will make them somewhat semi-visible (like a ghost image... something like what Kluths see ourselves when we are cloaked). You won't be able to target the Kluth, but you at least will be able to shoot at him.
How this idea?
Like I said, in return, ECCM should be made less effective. Either that, or reduce the number of ECCM slots on ships.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-06-01 04:30 ]
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