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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
|  Posted: 2011-07-25 17:10
That means shields are worse than armor.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-07-25 17:11
Not really
It does put shields in the deflecter catagory though... Alot of 670 build ships were punching strait through shields with a single alpha befor the reduction. Now will be worse.. however we can maintian shield cover for longer than they can maintain armor cover.
IF this stems from some sort of cross miss-use of Defence mode, PLEASE TWEEK IT INSTEAD!
it was never ment to be used in combat, and now your trying to balance ships for its use in combat...
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-07-25 17:15 ]
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2011-07-25 17:25
Quote:
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On 2011-07-25 16:06, Pantheon wrote:
That would be rather difficult, sync-wise.
In regards to the ICC supremecy and UGTO suckage, the next hotfix will quite substatially lower ICC's damage output, and increase UGTO's to bring them back into line. Not quite sure how this got past Q&A, but these things happen.
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The one thing i have to say to this is what about the Kluth? As of right now I feel the AD and Krill at least are pretty even. I dueled a luth earlier today, he was in a krill and i was in an AD. We ended up killing each other. If our damage output is decreased luth will beat us (at least in this one test). I think the way to fix this is perhaps buff up the utgo's damage output so we stay on par with luth and utgo can be even with both ICC and Kluth. 
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2011-07-25 17:42
Quote:
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On 2011-07-25 17:25, Brutality *RO* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-07-25 16:06, Pantheon wrote:
That would be rather difficult, sync-wise.
In regards to the ICC supremecy and UGTO suckage, the next hotfix will quite substatially lower ICC's damage output, and increase UGTO's to bring them back into line. Not quite sure how this got past Q&A, but these things happen.
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The one thing i have to say to this is what about the Kluth? As of right now I feel the AD and Krill at least are pretty even. I dueled a luth earlier today, he was in a krill and i was in an AD. We ended up killing each other. If our damage output is decreased luth will beat us (at least in this one test). I think the way to fix this is perhaps buff up the utgo's damage output so we stay on par with luth and utgo can be even with both ICC and Kluth.
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No idea what you're talking about. Just get up close to a krill and they'll destroy themselves. Krill is awful. Especially in a 1 on 1 situation. They're more a support ship and if you die solo to one in an AD: you're doing it wrong.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2011-07-25 18:00
Quote:
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On 2011-07-25 17:42, Azure Prower wrote:
Snap!
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Wisdom +1
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[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-07-25 18:18
Get in there and test ICC.
Lets not repeat what some members of KLuth did.
I faught Pantheon CDessy Vs. Gdessy. I lost, but just by a hair. A zig, or a zag, or a rotation instead of a turn, or another torp salvo could have easily saw me as the victor.
Overall CD vs GD is a good heartpounding dogfight now.
I also saw a AC destroy a TC with 88% hull to spare.. but they were sitting still with noses to eachother, and the AC was rotating shields and using def mode.... doesent really prove much imho.
Test test test test.
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-07-25 18:20
Quote:
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On 2011-07-25 16:06, Pantheon wrote:
That would be rather difficult, sync-wise.
In regards to the ICC supremecy and UGTO suckage, the next hotfix will quite substatially lower ICC's damage output, and increase UGTO's to bring them back into line. Not quite sure how this got past Q&A, but these things happen.
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UGTO ships are on par with the ICC equivalents right now, all the testing in beta showed that. UGTO were "sucking" in MV because they were outnumbered and many were still trying Dreadnought/Station spam without smaller ships to cover them, but today the numbers were mostly even and UGTO was easily holding it's own. ICC does not need a damage nerf, we already do less damage overall and the range advantage is countered by limited ammo for our guns.
Quote:
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On 2011-07-25 17:09, *XO*Defiance wrote:
Beta test
ICC shield HP reduced by 30% for a total of 45% reduction of HP since i started in 2009
Armor HP increased by 25%
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Where did you get this info? I don't see it in the devlog, but either way, a damage nerf AND a defense nerf for ICC, with UGTO getting a damage buff AND a defense buff?
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-07-25 18:28
UGTO ships are absolutely NOT on-par with ICC right now.
ICC weapons got a 10% reduction in damage (this is VERY minor, so don't go shouting to the high heavens about how much it'll change things).
UGTO weapons got a 10% boost in damage.
Standard Armor got a 25% hp increase.
Active Shields got a 25% hp decreased.
This was done due to testing earlier today in which every single fight an ICC ship won, and not just by a hair, by a significant margin. In some cases, the UGTO equiv didn't even break hull. After feedback from K'Luth and ICC players about the balance between them, it was decided to lower the damage output of ICC slightly, and to lower the amount of shields able to be shunted into an arc.
After these changes, each and every battle was won or lost by a hair. Those stating that ICC or UGTO are fine in the MV right now, I beg you to please take your bias and leave it at the door. Having fetched the statistics from 24 hours worth of play and watched several large battles, it is very apparent there are issues with UGTO and ICC.
Before you start whining to kingdom come, please go into beta and test. I've been in there for most of the day, and baring a small increase in torp damage for UGTO, it's roughly spot on between all three factions.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2011-07-25 18:30 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-07-25 18:39
I'm simply wondering why all of a sudden this happens when there were several tests with more than just 1v1 in beta before 1.67 went live and nothing like this was ever mentioned. But yes, I will be in beta tomorrow, as I was quite often during the 1.67 testing.
And I'll point out again that ICC was dominating because of superior numbers, we almost outnumbered Kluth and UGTO combined right after 1.67 hit MV, but earlier today when numbers were even it was a different story.
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Adapt or die.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2011-07-25 18:46
Because a testing environment is not the same as the real thing.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-07-25 19:37
i noticed shields did not change for the AD, Can you confirm this panthslash?
Also if Reactive shields are not affected by this change, then surely Active/reactive HP margins are so close now that its better to use the reactive?
I got my numbers through observation Tal. Way back when i was 1RA-VA i noticed people loggin on that had not been on in a few months with 115-120% shields. When i asked staff how that happens, they told me its becouse they had older build ships and shield HP had been lowered since last time they logged on.
Today i logged into beta and found that every ship in my garage has 130% shields and 75% armor. The exeption being the Assault Dread, which only had the 75% armor (100%shields).
Anyone that has a UGTO ship in their gararge in beta that they havent used since at least a week ago, and know it was at full health when they put it away, Please post what your armor HP reads when you spawn, and what ship it is.
Will help paint a clear picture.
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-07-25 19:44 ]
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-07-25 19:50
It was a device change, not a layout change. All ships using active shields got the same treatment.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-07-25 20:49
yea sorry. Just realized i had all reactive shields on my AD.
thats the build i beat EADs with.
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-07-25 22:32
There are some major issues in the way you achieved balance between icc and ugto.
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-07-25 22:42 ]
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2011-07-25 22:41
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On 2011-07-25 22:32, *XO*Defiance wrote:
There are some major issues in the way you achieved balance between icc and ugto.
Testing last night me and talien discovered some very disturbing problems.
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Way to explain these issues, your help is awesome.
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