On 2013-04-19 06:50, Taelon*RO* wrote:
They are not in viable, they are cloaked like the description says they are supposed to be...

On 2013-04-19 06:32, Fluttershy wrote:
The only time I've found missiles to be a real threat, is when they're coming from a support station, because those have:
- A ton of lasers for short range
- Massive amounts of armor and hull
- A repair field
- A repair drone
- Missiles that can apparently loop around despite you being in the dead-zone.
- HARPEX

Oh and Ganglias because the missiles are invisible even though you got 2 ships running a total of 6 ECCM

On 2013-04-19 07:37, Novacat wrote:

Actually, its pretty funny that Kluth are the only faction whom can viably use long range weapons because of the following.

1: Their fighters dont suck.

2: Their missiles are immune to most point defense solutions.

3: They can cloak and laugh if a CQC ship point-jumps them.

4: Their targets cannot cloak to avoid missiles.

On 2013-04-19 08:39, Borgie wrote:

1 luth fighters do suck, and are limited, once we cloak all our fighters return to base. they also do the same damage as the human counterparts.

2. missles arn't immune, ai, and cluster of ships have no problem screening em.

3. yes luth ships can cloak to get outta unfavorable combat between cloak, and jump drive. but when we cloak in CQC fights we take alot of damage while getting outta close range.

4> while our targets can't cloak to avoid missles they can run good mix of ships to screen missles. problem being is most players thing stations and AD/EAD is the only way to go.

On 2013-04-19 11:36, Okkam's Razor (Silenthunter13) wrote:
Let us also not forget that if you make K'luth vulnerable to missiles everyone would fly missile ships. (Don't question it, you know the only reason you don't fly mass M-dreads is because you can't hit the lobsters)

A pack of cruisers is faster, more enjoyable and equally (if not more) dangerous than dreadnaughts. It is also cheaper and quicker to use/get used to.

As sad as it is for me to reveal this to you, those of you who are not aware of this fact, it is simply 'impossible' to fully balance all sides of the coin. That's it.. There is nothing more to say.
The reason is because once you change something it has direct effects on something you could not have calculated due to the inter-weaved game mechanics/code/tactics inherent in the game which will always be there.

- Suggestion to introduce a race balancing effect to the MV similar to the scenario server.

- Introduce a minimum jump range distance to prevent 'point jumping' (which is in itself directly linked to the dreadnaught population)

- Change assault dreadnaughts to be more of a specific weapon (like all current ships) than a 'One Spacebar Fits All'.

- Introduce to the game that smaller ships hit harder against larger ones. (at this point, with the changes being made to ship designs and layouts it is probably already in motion)

- Limit the dreadnaughts in a fleet. (This one is the most controversial in my opinion but would solve future issues. A problem to be considered is that even if you balance the assault dreadnaughts and make them harder to be used in all situations you will still have a fleet of dreadnaughts, it will just be mixed instead of all Assault class.)

On 2013-04-19 05:00, Fluttershy wrote:
Beacons get enveloped in whatever cloaking field the KLuth use.
It does make it harder for the cloak, though, and it uses more energy.

What annoys me about the K'Luth, though, is that the human factions do not get low ranked heavy-hitters until the assault cruiser, in order to better deal with them.

Let's face it, cannon frigates/destroyers don't do crap to the K'Luth.
One Siphon against 6 players in anything lower than a cruiser = zero damns given.

On 2013-04-19 13:37, Novacat wrote:

Luth fighters arent great, but they are far better than UGTO/ICC fighters which are trash. At least, that is what I was informed from Brood/Ganglia pilots.

I never said fully immune, I said mostly immune. Its possible to intercept Kluth missiles, it is just far more difficult than ICC/UGTO missiles.

No, this is not true at all. Jumpdrives makes the speed argument irrellevant, and a pack of EADs/ADs is far more dangerous than a pack of heavy cruisers or assault cruisers.

- Introduce a minimum jump range distance to prevent 'point jumping' (which is in itself directly linked to the dreadnaught population)

-------
The problems with this have already been pointed out.

- Limit the dreadnaughts in a fleet. (This one is the most controversial in my opinion but would solve future issues. A problem to be considered is that even if you balance the assault dreadnaughts and make them harder to be used in all situations you will still have a fleet of dreadnaughts, it will just be mixed instead of all Assault class.)

--------
Again, it will just result in people quitting to either play later, or not play at all, and this game cant afford to hemmorage any more players than it already has, Faustus can barely pay the server bills as is.

On 2013-04-19 07:28, Soulless. wrote:
@Kenny, so a station whos top speed has been reduced to 3.5 Gu/s. Is supposed to slow boat it to a planet because of a new limiter that is supposed to stop them, from dropping on the heads of ships nearby. Do you have any idea whats thats gonna cause?

Here for simple sake. A station is 2k away from a planet, when it suddenly needs to get back to help his teammates to Slow Boat would take him Ten minutes! now to even jump away out of range then Back to the planet take almost half as long and would leave him vulnerable. And with the changes to stations its gonna be even worse for him to be alone.

So looking at that...not a very good idea right off hand, not a bad one either but not good. Would be much better to tie it in with some sort of cooldown related to the in/out of combat timer. So if your out of combat you can make those shorter leaps, and if your in combat you cant

On 2013-04-19 14:24, Talien wrote:
This is partially true, luth interceptors have 30% more damage output than ICC/UGTO. Aside from that they're exactly the same.

Untrue. I'm going to guess you weren't around to see the ICC Cruiser wolfpacks that were going around before ECM was nerfed to crap. A couple Border Cruisers running ECM combined with an AC or 2 was an amazing combination that could handle anything thrown at them. Packs of Cruisers are still workable, it just takes a lot more coordination, teamwork, and a bit of patience, which is something lacking in the current playerbase.

Point jumping is in itself a valid tactic, it's just too easy to do from close range. Eliminating point jumping entirely is a bad solution and an interdictor platform that has no offense or defense will simply be blown up by a Siphon decloaking infront of it while his buddies attack other ships. It won't change anything aside from ICC/UGTO balance.

Yeah putting a minimum range on jumps may make it harder for Stations to get around in tight clusters but maybe that just means a Station isn't the best choice in that kind of situation? Or just ask a teammate to hop on a command ship to WH you there, because this is a team based game.

Yeah pretty much. Class limits WOULD be the ideal solution, but the "entitlement" crowd would bitch, whine, and quit.

On 2013-04-19 17:09, The Fridge wrote:
And the fact that Luth lack a Carrier Dreadnought.

Also Destroyers still can solo Dreadnoughts, and pretty much have been able to since i started playing 7 years ago.
Even Interceptor and Assault Frigs will given the time and ammo.