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Dreadspace (yes, that dead horse) |
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
|  Posted: 2013-04-15 16:19
There's a few ideas already being thrown around about how to fix the point jump issue, personally I think the best one would be limiting jump distance to 3500 GU and up, so no more short jumps. That way point jumps are still a viable combat tool but only when done from long distances as an ambush and not just to close distance with a more maneuverable ship that you're currently fighting.
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Diabo|ik
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2002
Posts: 327
From: Quebec, Canada
| Posted: 2013-04-15 17:46
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On 2013-04-15 16:19, Talien wrote:
There's a few ideas already being thrown around about how to fix the point jump issue, personally I think the best one would be limiting jump distance to 3500 GU and up, so no more short jumps. That way point jumps are still a viable combat tool but only when done from long distances as an ambush and not just to close distance with a more maneuverable ship that you're currently fighting.
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3500gu is already pretty close and sometimes will be way too far. You'll have to make 2 jumps to get somewhere closeby. More hassle. People will just sidestep the issue and the problem with point jumping will remain.
I like Fluttershy's idea more, you can't jump in too close of an enemy. But you could jump "over it". IOWs, you only get stopped if your jump out point is inside a 500gu range of a ship. Allow jumping out inside that range and point jumping problem is solved.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-04-15 18:39
Exactly, it would only disallow you to jump in or disengage jump drive near an enemy.
You could still jump out of a battle no problem.
You could still jump next to friendly units, assuming they are not near an enemy.
If players want to combat smaller ships, then they should be using something that is made to do so.
It would actually give some real purpose to faster escort ships, and carriers would be useful.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2013-04-15 18:40 ]
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-04-15 19:31
That wouldn't work what about ships that can't attack within 500ish gu, I think you should still be able to jump near, I still disagree about being able to sit on the ships though.
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Diabo|ik
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2002
Posts: 327
From: Quebec, Canada
| Posted: 2013-04-15 23:06
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On 2013-04-15 19:31, Taelon*RO* wrote:
That wouldn't work what about ships that can't attack within 500ish gu, I think you should still be able to jump near, I still disagree about being able to sit on the ships though.
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Then they'd have to close in first, I don't see a problem with that.
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Diabo|ik
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2002
Posts: 327
From: Quebec, Canada
| Posted: 2013-04-15 23:20
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On 2013-04-15 18:39, Fluttershy wrote:
Exactly, it would only disallow you to jump in or disengage jump drive near an enemy.
You could still jump out of a battle no problem.
You could still jump next to friendly units, assuming they are not near an enemy.
If players want to combat smaller ships, then they should be using something that is made to do so.
It would actually give some real purpose to faster escort ships, and carriers would be useful.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2013-04-15 18:40 ]
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BUT, for that to work, I think we'd need to rebalance the ship speeds slightly, more speed for dread and station and maybe just a lil wee bit more for the cruiser.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-04-16 01:57
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On 2013-04-15 23:20, Diabo|ik wrote:
BUT, for that to work, I think we'd need to rebalance the ship speeds slightly, more speed for dread and station and maybe just a lil wee bit more for the cruiser.
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It could use some re-balancing afterwards, and would be a definite boost to ICC and missile ships.
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2013-04-16 08:08
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On 2013-04-15 19:31, Taelon*RO* wrote:
That wouldn't work what about ships that can't attack within 500ish gu, I think you should still be able to jump near, I still disagree about being able to sit on the ships though.
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The whole reason CQC Ships are overpowered to begin with is that they can instantly close in to engagement range. That is also why Cloak is overpowered, it allows Kluth to get into and out of their range brackets without any risk. In order for long range ships to work there has to be a chance for them to engage targets, and currently they are not being provided that chance.
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On 2013-04-15 17:46, Diabo|ik wrote:
I like Fluttershy's idea more, you can't jump in too close of an enemy. But you could jump "over it". IOWs, you only get stopped if your jump out point is inside a 500gu range of a ship. Allow jumping out inside that range and point jumping problem is solved.
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I suggested something like this a week or so ago, but the developers stated that programming something like this is beyond their ability. So I suggested instead that they bring back the interdictor, but put it on a platform instead.
Basically, have an interdictor platform that has no PD, has a 1000 gu radius, and only one can be built per faction. It would give factions the opportunity to use long-range ships in an offensive role by using the interdictor platform as cover. It would also give purpose to smaller ships, as they would likely be the only ones able to get close enough to engage the platform.
It would be simple and easy to code, and it would avoid the problems of the old interdictor cruisers.
[ This Message was edited by: Novacat on 2013-04-16 08:13 ]
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2013-04-16 12:06
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On 2013-04-15 16:19, Talien wrote:
There's a few ideas already being thrown around about how to fix the point jump issue, personally I think the best one would be limiting jump distance to 3500 GU and up, so no more short jumps. That way point jumps are still a viable combat tool but only when done from long distances as an ambush and not just to close distance with a more maneuverable ship that you're currently fighting.
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but what about short distances between planets? Like Earth and luna for example they lie with in that 3.5k Gu range. There is quite a few binary planet clusters like that with even a few triple system...and lord be hold the Faobian Cluster located in 61 Cyg A. Probibly a better idea would be to tie the jump limiter in to the combat timer....cause lets face it if your shoting or being shot your ship is gonna rock and that is gonna make it hard for your nave boys to plot precise jumps
something that i think would also help is the lowering of gaget levels...not reducing them all together but lowering them to reduce some of the massive scaling that happens..... Was gonna show it with some weps but the sit is down XD
Any who the massive range between scouts and dreads is what is also casing more dreads, more powr=more press. and then there is PJs to contend with. But all in all a lot of factors make dreads the prim thing to fly.
Power, PJ, defence, decent speed, manv
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-04-16 13:13
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On 2013-04-16 08:08, Novacat wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-04-15 19:31, Taelon*RO* wrote:
That wouldn't work what about ships that can't attack within 500ish gu, I think you should still be able to jump near, I still disagree about being able to sit on the ships though.
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The whole reason CQC Ships are overpowered to begin with is that they can instantly close in to engagement range. That is also why Cloak is overpowered, it allows Kluth to get into and out of their range brackets without any risk. In order for long range ships to work there has to be a chance for them to engage targets, and currently they are not being provided that chance.
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Cloak is -not- OP it gives an advantage just like shields, and stronger armor does. but since I am in class atm I will explain more when I get a chance, well more of my reasoning.
Edit: HTML is easy and I am bored.
Cloak gives a advantage, so do shields if anything UGTO needs something a little more then armor IMHO but that's just me.
[ This Message was edited by: Taelon*RO* on 2013-04-16 13:30 ]
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2013-04-16 15:23
ICC does has shields as advantage, but that doesnt stop them from getting killed in the normal way
its just that kluth got TOO mouch of an advantage, and thats not only cuz of cloak. , they got Faster JD recharge so they can leave quick/track quicker than anyne else, they got the Most alpha damage, they can cloak, they got AHR to repair quickly, allowing them to get back in battle 2 minutes after they left (and might be generous there saying 2 minutes)
ICC got rotating sheilds, bit extra range (wich is offset by point jump) and slightly more manouverbility
UGTO got....something
i think the choice is pretty much standing out here
its just that cloak is a major game changer as in, It nullify long range "Completly" but it cant still use missle at you no problem
It can hide away
it can creep up and hit you anytime it wants
where it wants
But there is another thing that im puttng in to concider, there is no goal in the MV beside the player mentallity of killign people. someone people dont care there planet are ca, it wont change a thing. there is no gain(beside some minor prest) nor loses from it. thus Kluth only creep in to kill peole they see most easiest.
Now if there was an actual Goal like in scen, then they woudl probably be forced tos tick around bit longer in a battle....hopefully
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2013-04-16 15:43
Quote:
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On 2013-04-16 13:13, Taelon*RO* wrote:
Cloak is -not- OP it gives an advantage just like shields, and stronger armor does. but since I am in class atm I will explain more when I get a chance, well more of my reasoning.
Edit: HTML is easy and I am bored.
Cloak gives a advantage, so do shields if anything UGTO needs something a little more then armor IMHO but that's just me.
[ This Message was edited by: Novacat on 2013-04-16 15:46 ]
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The problem of Cloak's advantage is that it is absolute and cannot be countered. Shields and armor can be countered and blasted through. Cloak never fails. It is absolute and works absolutely. This absolute nature is what makes it such a detriment to gameplay. Kluth dont have to think. They can just cloak, sneak up on a player whom has no way of detecting that cloak, decloak, pewpewpew at their perfect engagement range, and then cloak again when the situation goes south. Once a Kluth is cloaked they cannot be tracked at all.
That is why Kluth is such a popular faction. When you have a powerful tool that works 100% of the time and has barely any counter or drawback, it is going to be very popular. Yes, the Kluth do have the drawback in that their armor is paper (well, ever since the introduction of Chitin, not so much anymore) and their energy goes very fast, but they also get AMEs which are the fastest drive in the game, and AMJDs which are also faster than normal jumpdrives.
As for ICC and UGTO...
ICC's advantages are mainly defensive and range oriented. Shields, Pulse Shields, and their weapons, while doing less damage than UGTO/Kluth, also tend to have the greatest range. ICC Disadvantages is that their energy consumption is terrible, and while they have some shields they also use composite armor which is pretty much on par with chitin.
UGTO is more offensive. Their armor has great HP (matches shields) but very little regeneration, and cannot be redirected, but can be repaired by supply ships (This was actually very OP up until devs nerfed it). They have flux wave/flux beams which are designed to disable enemy components, but this is currently not working very well, part of it is because they are weak, part of it is because Kluth AHR laughs at it (seriously, AHR was a godsend back in the days of flux boats). They also have greater damage than ICC, but less range.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-04-16 18:48
UGTO's big advantage was ablative and reflective armor giving them tailored resistances, and dual armor layers that can be quickly repaired via platforms and drones, but with shields being "UGTOfied" they've lost some of their advantage because now ICC have it too. UGTO still have the advantage of being able to repair quickly even in combat with multiple platforms and repair drones, but for ICC once shields are down they're not much good until you break combat and give them a chance to regen.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2013-04-16 19:35
kluth have the same thing now too!
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-04-16 20:14
Also why is it that I die while cloaked then? It doesn't make us unkillable, k'luth is supposed to do more damage, but we die a lot faster, a alpha from most things hurts our arcs easy, a alpha from a k'luth does less to icc because shields are beam resistant, and unto yeah I think they need a new helpful thing, make a thing to ping, like a general it is within like 500 gu of this spot, that would make it more fair for ugto.
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