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Suggestions: Balance of Power, etc. |
El Guapo
Chief Marshal
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 276
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
|  Posted: 2010-03-30 08:43
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On 2010-03-30 08:28, BackSlash wrote:
I'm actually not allowed to touch the EAD. Best bet would be to ask Drafell.
Krill's not the best ship to line it up against either, seeing as the Krill is most definitely overpowered at the moment (has far too much energy).
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This coming for a man that fly's an EAD... Krill like all K'luth ships has a problem with power, if you turn on the light you run out of power and are sitting in the dark... Thing is we have learnt to manage our power consumption in most cases...
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UnknownWarrior
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: July 18, 2002
Posts: 724
From: North Carolina, USA
| Posted: 2010-03-30 08:53
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On 2010-03-30 02:09, Pakhos wrote:
If something needs to be buffed it is icc itself.
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Personally ICC doesnt really need a buff at all. The biggest issue here is that Shield Management can be a very helpful thing that most people just dont pay attention to much anymore. That and we lack a large player base like UGTO and Kluth from time to time.
Im sure if more ICC started flying as a team and started managing their shield rotations like it was ment to be ICC wouldnt be on such a weak end all the time in combat situations.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-30 08:56
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On 2010-03-30 08:28, El Desterrado wrote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:33, Tael wrote:
We've discussed having cloak not work within 250 or 500 gu of a planet to stop tranny rushes... And to keep Kluth from planet hugging and getting them back out in deep space like they were intended.
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Man where did that come from, K'luth planet hug... Sorry Teal, but last I looked in the mirror I was not a meat bag (ICC, UGTO), only time you will see us around a planet is when we are bored, building, repping...
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Word!
I'll be damned if Des is wrong. Kluths do not planet hug. We've never needed to.
Seriously Tael... You either haven't been playing much lately or that's some good stuff yer smokin'
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-03-30 09:11
I was going to point out the irony in Tael's post earlier but figured someone else'd do it.
I think it's funny that it's being argued that UGTO's EAD needs full firing arcs or buffs and upgrades when it's already stronger on the offencive than ICC's AD is. Well, cookiecutter flight, I personally think ICC's superior to UGTO.
What you're doing here is suggesting an upgrade to UGTO with respect to fighting the K'luth. I'm not even going to argue in favour of full weapon arcs for the AD here, frankly the ICC doesn't need full firing arcs for their ships as we can deal with back attacks quite well. (that's to say cover eachother's rear when possible, jump if it's perilous, etc)
But, okay. If you make the UGTO Elite Assault Dreadnought better than the ICC Assault Dreadnought by improving its firing arcs, what suggestions do you have to improve the ICC Assault Dreadnought? Or do you believe it can deal with the lack of backwards firing capabilities?
Are you sure the EAD should be compared to the Krill and not to the Siphon, which is its actual equivalent in rank and design on K'luth side? The Krill is, after all, a GRAND ADMIRAL ship, last I checked, and not simply a Fleet Admiral ship with minimal badge requirements.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-03-30 09:24
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On 2010-03-30 08:43, El Desterrado wrote:
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On 2010-03-30 08:28, BackSlash wrote:
I'm actually not allowed to touch the EAD. Best bet would be to ask Drafell.
Krill's not the best ship to line it up against either, seeing as the Krill is most definitely overpowered at the moment (has far too much energy).
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This coming for a man that fly's an EAD... Krill like all K'luth ships has a problem with power, if you turn on the light you run out of power and are sitting in the dark... Thing is we have learnt to manage our power consumption in most cases...
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I've flown the Krill enough times to know that it is insanely overpowered when it comes to energy. It can alpha more times than anyone's business. I'm no pro when it comes to K'luth's energy management, but I'm clued up enough to know that being able to alpha more times than any other Dread of it's level is not how it's meant to be. Regardless of the views on that, it's being looked at and will be fixed at some point.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-03-30 09:27
Yeah I didnt oversite the ICC in that. I am not nor ever have been an ICC pilot. I dont even know wth is supposed to be their top ship anymore. Once i did, but I dont remember anymore. So I cant speak to anything on the ICC ships. I leave it to more competent veterans such as yourself. Feel free to throw your thoughts in.
And Im not saying turn all its arc to full. Im thinking that just a few more would work. Im not talking a full rework. Im talking typical balancing tweaks. These arent even to increase the offensive capabilities. Its to increase defensive capabilities.
I keep hearing the Krill is too strong. Only if sitting still, out of rupter range, firing with SI and its stupid cannons is it not going to suck energy. The fact that the humans allow us to do THAT particular thing is their own fault.
My observations lie mostly in fighting against the EAD, specifically in the Krill. TBH, I am more cautious in the rear of a Command Carrier and a Command Dread than I am an EAD. Ive had half my armor ripped to snot before I come close to hull, and that was in the "Beast". The EAD is NO comparison.
What is it meant to assault elitely? The wing of a station? Nothing personal, but at least with human ships, everything is in the name. I dont think of happy pink bunnies and fluffy teddy bears when I hear Elite Assault Dread. I think, I'm gonna pwn somebody in this thing.
Basically, for all the whining K'Luth, I am argueing for them not to nerf its energy, but to instead add some defnsive buffage to the other ships. To me this is a perfect example of just a very few changes can improve a ship dramatically, and thereby the faction.
Of course, if you prefer the Krill to get nerfed, sure, argue against me all you want.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-03-30 09:49
I'm saying it mostly because back-attacking is something K'luth alone can monopolise. Giving a powerful ship a weakness isn't really absurd - the AD has similar lack of offence in its back. Granted, it has shielding and an armour plate there, making it superior to the EAD in terms of defences.
But the weakness of an EAD can be covered by flying another ship behind it to guard its rear. This is simply a matter of devising a strategy to cover weaknesses.
And, of course, EAD isn't the ideal ship to use against K'luth because of all the cloaking and sneaking behind the back. It's all just a matter of strategy and tactics to cover the EAD's weaknesses.
(PS: You must be crazy, suggesting ICC or UGTO to jump a Krill. Who knows how many Krill cloak around it.  I wouldn't jump a Krill unless I was sure others'd join in the jump because of LOLAMBUSH)
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-03-30 09:52
Only thing the Krill will likely get is less energy regen, nothing else. Right now it has a tad too much when compared to other super dread's, especially under speed & fire.
As far as the EAD's rear goes, there are plans to re-do the entire point system that we use to include arcs, so if anything I have a feeling it'll lose some unfortunately. Again, you'll have to speak to Drafell about this.
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SPaRTaN Z
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 26, 2009
Posts: 235
| Posted: 2010-03-30 09:53
EAD doesn't need a buff ., ?? do any of you's know how to fly it? scattering qtst's? beam swipes? u shouldn't use all of ur beams until ur doing the finishing touches, 1 heavy chem laser is enuf to do swipes.. not just CTRL CLICK and ALPHA but use one beam and move it around with the mouse untill u find your enemy.. ..
and when u kill them u say /y: 'who needs a scanner?'..
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2010-03-30 10:05
The Elite Aassault Dreadnought and the Krill may be in the same class, but they are definitely not in the same role, so any comparisons you make between them during a fight are mute.
The EAD is a close ranged assault ship. You get in close and have enough energy to do a lot of damage in a short time. It is NOT intended in any way to go up against a Krill and win. If the Krill is stupid enough to get close then sure, the EAD should pummel it severely, otherwise the Krill has the advantage.
The Krill is a ranged assault ship and has more in common with a Battle Dreadnought than any other vessel. Used properly it can be a devastating ship, but finds itself vulnerable to other ranged ships. Battle Cruisers, Heavy Cruisers, Combat Dreadnoughts and Battle Dreadnoughts can hold thier own and often drive the Krill away.
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Aradrox
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 133
From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2010-03-30 10:48
the cloak my opinion instead of coming up with something completely NEW just make a new detection device that fits the Scanner/ECCM/ECM slots or reword the scanner to do the same thing since the scanner has not real use its just a weak ECCM. that said i would suggest a device that would ping the luth ships based on Hull Class as follows
Scout 3 seconds
Frigate 4 seconds.
Destroyer 5 Seconds
Cruiser 7 Seconds
Dreadnaught 10 Seconds
Station 30 Seconds (why so long? stations ARE tought and take time to kill but if you have reached FA you should KNOW to get out before you reach say 50% hull in a station unless you want to take the rist of dieing)
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-03-30 11:47
Ok what we got so far?
Kluth planet hug should be stoped at all cost.
To avoid that;
1- Cloak needs to be nerfed.
2- Krill needs to be fixed on energy.
3- EAD needs a buff.
4- Because EAD gets a buff, so AD will get one.
Anything else i forgot to mention?
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[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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SPaRTaN Z
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 26, 2009
Posts: 235
| Posted: 2010-03-30 11:51
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On 2010-03-30 11:47, Pakhos wrote:
Ok what we got so far?
Kluth planet hug should be stoped at all cost.
To avoid that;
1- Cloak needs to be nerfed.
2- Krill needs to be fixed on energy.
3- EAD needs a buff.
4- Because EAD gets a buff, so AD will get one.
Anything else i forgot to mention?
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bloody hope not. .
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Xydes
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 07, 2009
Posts: 276
From: England
| Posted: 2010-03-30 12:17
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On 2010-03-30 02:06, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
I like the Depth charge idea. Will make E&E (escape & evasion) more challenging for K'Luth.
How about a cloak disruptor torpedo?
U fire the thing, and it travels for a max distance of 500 GUs, then detonate (or you can Shift + detonate it or it impacts a vessel).
The effect would be to instantly disrupt or drop the cloak of any K'luth vessel in a radius of about 200 GUs, and disable the cloaking device for perhaps 10 seconds.
Limit the ammo to a few rounds, and a long reload period to prevent spamming. Also make it only replaceable on ships already torpedo equipped, so not everybody will suddenly equip one.
It's not gonna be easy to use, granted, but then it will be interesting to see how some talented players will employ it to good effect. 
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-30 02:10 ]
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I really like this idea! Would make combat alittle more intresting!
Devs listen to this man/guy/bug thing! He has ideas coming out of the Whazoo! If you do not take this guys ideas into hand then I dunno what type of human/Bug/Human Rebels I fight with daily.
[ This Message was edited by: Admiral Valkaryie on 2010-03-30 12:18 ]
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2010-03-30 12:20
People are focusing on planet hug comments, and sorry to say, every time I go in server I see Kluth all clustered and hugging planets.
Maybe these two or three players dont do it, but I see it all the time now.
But what the K'luth players are ignoring is the bigger problem, the cloak tranny rush.
There is no way for the humans to defend their planets if the Kluth can send in 4 or 5 transports full of inf cloaked, get 50 gu from the surfaces, and uncloak and drop inf. Nearly instant take over of the planet.
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