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interdictors |
Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
|  Posted: 2009-03-03 16:35
Quote:
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On 2009-03-03 11:18, Faustus wrote:
We are considering a couple of changes to interdictors...
Change 1: Add a spin up time for jumping once you are aligned, around 1 second perhaps... however, if you are in a interdictor field, then it make take 10-30 seconds to jump depending on the number and level of interdictors.
Change 2: Remove ship based interdictors and keep planet based ones only.
Your thoughts and comments are welcome...
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I have to say i liked the way things where in 1.483 with dictors...their a good way to control a figth...maybe the radius should be nerfed down to say 400-500gu..
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2009-03-03 17:04
well, whatever gets decided with the dictors, please have the missile/carrier ships in mind. the carriers might not be in THAT bad shape but the missile ships are not nearly as useful as they have been now with the minimum firing range and stuff.
atleast the carriers can still launch their fighters to be target practice for the PD's 
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-03-03 17:13
Any posts getting off-topic will be removed.
Please keep on-topic.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2009-03-03 17:28
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Russian Roulette
*snip*
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Ah, but that's the thing. Like with weapons, when you ping is important.
You don't want all of your ECCM to ping at once, you want to ping them in sequence. And you also don't want them to ping when you've already got a fix on the enemy position and are hitting them, you want to ping when they've slipped away and you can't dumb-fire. You definitely don't want to be pinging while they're decloaked, then you want to leave it on so they can't fade quickly.
Yes, pinging was accidental, but it works. It is a secondary function of ECCM now, and is best employed by a Scout or Frigate, since they have low ping cooldowns and generally more EW slots.
ANYWAY. This thread is about dictors, not pinging, so let's stop hijacking the topic.
On-topic, both blocking and trapping dictors can get kills. A blocking dictor will force the enemy out of jump at a time and place they don't want it to, so you can set things up accordingly--for example, by parking a few missile/carrier dreads 2000 gu away. The blocking dictor stops them from jumping directly to those ships, enabling them to tear the enemy apart at range.
The trapping dictor would be better operating in conjunction with close-combat ships, as it could keep the enemy pinned while the knife-fighters wade in and beat the snot out of them.
However, neither kind of Dictor should be too powerful. Even if they can't kill the Dictor itself, ships should have some means of escaping. The easiest way to do this is with energy drain; the ship can't fly faster than the enemies while maintaining the dictor field. But there are other means as well.
For example, take the blocking Dictor. It prevents enemies from entering its area of effect, but not from leaving, OR from jumping while WITHIN the area of effect. So smaller ships with faster-charging jump drives--or big ships using that one Jump Drive Energy enhancement, which I *think* resets your JD cooldown--could hit the edge of the field, fly inside it, then jump a second time.
On the other hand, the trapping Dictor might have a smaller area of effect, so it has to stay near its targets to pin them--meaning it is within weapons range.
Or heck, add in an even trickier aspect--have Dictor fields CANCEL OUT. If the enemy has a trapping Dictor, you can bring in a trapping dictor of your own and negate it. Or maybe opposing types disrupt each other--your trapper negates their blocker, but their blocker negates your trapper. Or heck, we could add two MORE devices on Dictor cruisers that do nothing but negate an enemy Dictor field of a given type.
The idea of a Dictor platform has the potential for abuse--I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're a common sight next to jumpgates. Or for a non-Dictor ship to fly around at high speed, towing one with a tractor beam. We don't want to turn Extractors into Dictors, now do we?
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Bandit
Cadet
Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: 165
From: Under a rock
| Posted: 2009-03-03 19:09
You see, nobody will be happy here. Leave them in and you piss off this group when they are brought out. Take them out and you piss off that group of people cause they cant stop a fleeing ship.
My vote would be to leave them in but reduce the range on them to about 350 gu and change the power consuption rate so that the ship can fly at about 50% without power drain. In doing so, you effectively make the ship part of the battle and a single target weapon instead of a battle breaker.
But alot of people have their likes and dislikes about them. 99% likes to use them to get the kill but don't like them used against them when they get killed. I feel for you Richard on this decision..lol
Scenario.....
Charley: Hey Tom, I am in a sensor scout and spotted some kluth over in an area trying to organize a raid. Jump in another scout. Bring Frank and John in cruisers for flanking/pinging, Mike and Sherry in the dictors. Also Joe, Scott, Adam and Jerry in dreads and Dale in a support station.
Tom: Rgr.
Dale: Ok, I want everyone's ECCM running. Tom and Charley, I want you to run around in the area you spotted them in with scanner. If they uncloak and fire on you, don't be a hero. Get the hell out of there! Frank and John, I want you to point jump to about 6 or 700 gu from last known area and start pinging. When you find them, the dreads, dictors and myself will jump in on them. Charley and tom, after we jump in, you beacon them. Frank and John, you guys follow our dreads in and flank their targets. Mike, you dictor Frank's target and Sherry, you get John's. I want 2 dreads, a flanking cruiser and a dictor on each target. Lets bust em up guys. Once we kill our two targets, all of you fall back to me and regroup. If things get messy, jump away and we will regroup at our planet.
[ This Message was edited by: Bandit on 2009-03-03 20:06 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Bandit on 2009-03-03 20:10 ]
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Danek Ma`arna C`arns
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 102
From: Atlanta
| Posted: 2009-03-03 20:28
My post was on topic.
Put the damn dictor on a platform and be done with it.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-03-03 20:29
Quote:
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On 2009-03-03 20:28, Carns wrote:
My post was on topic.
Put the damn dictor on a platform and be done with it.
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enter the suppy dictor, dragging a dico wherever he goes
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Malarthi
Cadet
Joined: March 17, 2004
Posts: 113
| Posted: 2009-03-04 05:21
Faustus, would these changes be in tandem, or can they be separate?
Personally, I think 1 would be a perfectly reasonable change as long as there's something about incoming ships as well, maybe that it scrambles incoming active warp drives and makes them long or short their position, potentially stranding them several hundred (or thousand) gu from their target or way the heck past where they wanted to be. Such an idea would, obviously be modified for planets, but something about the idea of people who close jump planets to drop inf before they can be killed slamming into planets at speeds somewhere around c is appealing.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-03-04 07:26
the only change needed to dictors is to make them affect friendly + enemy alike.
other than that Leave em, just fix them.
i mean honestly everyone whined to thier hearts content when shipyards were added, dont see them whining now? fix the dictors n b done with it.
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Danek Ma`arna C`arns
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 102
From: Atlanta
| Posted: 2009-03-04 07:37
Quote:
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On 2009-03-03 20:29, -Sensitivity- wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-03-03 20:28, Carns wrote:
My post was on topic.
Put the damn dictor on a platform and be done with it.
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enter the suppy dictor, dragging a dico wherever he goes
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Your supplies have Tractor Beams?
I really don't see the problem, however. 1000gu meant something when their were 3 weapons that hit that far, one of them for little damage and the other two PDable. Now... most vessels have a combat option of dealing with the dictor platform.
You cannot drag the item you are tractoring through a jump... so you can only keep it up by jumping to prepared areas. Most people would see that as a good thing, and once again... enemies can simply eliminate the dictor platform.
The only issue would be if there are combat ships with tractor beams, rather than miners, engineering ships, and other support vessels. If they exist, the tractors can be removed.
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2009-03-04 08:07
what about cumulative effect of interdictors ...
1 interdictor can break small ship engines and with small chance medium ship and with rare chance big ship engine
2 can break small and medium ship engines and with some chance also bigger
3 can break any ship engines with only station and 'best' dread models getting chance to pass
4 can stop any engine ...
in that case 'range' should not be nerved but adjusted (even increased) accordingly
thats because interdictor ships are relatively weak and could be atm killed from outside the interdicting bubble ...
also in such case planetary interdictor could count as two ship interdictors (because it's easier to place bigger and more effective model inside huge planetary facility)
btw. platform with interdictor is not bad idea at all combined with ECM on it as long there is some limit on theirs max number in sector (tho the total platform count should be higher then) ...
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now lets take some different view on things 
if the interdictor device offers too small range <300-500gu it become useless for any on ship and planets
then it would raise question if race with enough technological advantage on nano and micro technology could 'shrink' like MI faction is
interdictor into missile based warhead in form of mine or beacons (stick / break hull, takes some time to remove/run out of power)
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also for planetary use the interdictor must cover range same or bit bigger than maximal orbit/troop unload range
calculation would go approx this way (fast it's approximate 2-3 times of the max orbit/unload range):
speed of subFTL enemy transport ship which jumps to planet with interdictor + time needed for defense to respond preventing the intruder unload w/o chance he fail
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IF the range is 500 to 1000 gu then the ship must keep enough defense to hold close to targets and energy to keep some speed ...
now IF the device is 'mountable' on ships with range beyond 1kgu (e.g. 1kgu like now or more depending on my previous suggestion about cumulative effect)
then the drain of such device must be so massive than using anything except some little weapon should cause interdictor auto-shutdown
as side effect this would mean kluth can't go cloak, ICC and UGTO can't use most of weapons or other stuff using lot of energy or simply go too fast
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and about platforms ... some mentioned very short range on interdictor platform then what purpose would such platform serve ?
imagine that You can jump to the platform and even if it 'intercept and break' your jump then you can just open fire and destroy it
the platform builders would compensate by insane defense amount like armor plating, shields, auto repairs etc. and supply platform would be tiny compared to such monster
or they would not bother to build them as platforms at all
on other hand if the device is long range (depending on my previous suggestion about cumulative effect) and cheap while with huge power demand
also such device would be as cheap as possible so defense would be on par or lower with rest of platforms ...
[ This Message was edited by: Dwarden on 2009-03-04 09:12 ]
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2009-03-04 10:29
so your sayng you want 4 interdictors to be able to stop a dread point jump on a MD and stuff?...very very bad idea
your idea sounds better when its other way around
1 for station and dread
2 for medium aswell
3 for dessis
4 for all ships
that would atleast sound right, and make people think twice befor massing dreads and station
But i really Second Meko more than anything,Just get em fixed already,They were good as it is,People just whine because its trap them,.just as people whine for Kluth cloak,Yet cloak have'nt been removed
just fix the dictor already
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Danek Ma`arna C`arns
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 102
From: Atlanta
| Posted: 2009-03-04 10:30
That's backward as hell.
If anything, it requires more power to make larger vessels jump, thus it takes less effort to disrupt the process. That would ground Dreads and Stations with 1 unit. However, nice effort in continuing the dreadspace propaganda.
However, the dictor code has to be a major contributor in the lag, and current lack of it. I figure anyhting that leads to stacked interdictors is a bad thing.
With the platform idea... if two interdictors are built too close to each other (any faction) they should cause feedback that destroys both interdictors.
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2009-03-04 11:12
i sort of agree with reverse cumulation so smaller needs more ...
but point of post is cause discussion
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Danek Ma`arna C`arns
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 102
From: Atlanta
| Posted: 2009-03-04 11:14
I thought it was to assert and impose my will upon others...
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