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interdictors |
Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
|  Posted: 2009-03-04 11:22
That's just a beneficial side-effect.
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Danek Ma`arna C`arns
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 102
From: Atlanta
| Posted: 2009-03-04 11:27
Once the craptastic interdictor cruisers are history, can the Kluth have the Piercer turned into heavy/battle equiv cruiser?
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-03-04 16:59
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On 2009-03-04 11:27, Carns wrote:
Once the craptastic interdictor cruisers are history, can the Kluth have the Piercer turned into heavy/battle equiv cruiser?
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hah. keep dreamin carebear
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Gimme an Eff, to the Eye Ex Period!
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Target
Cadet
Joined: July 23, 2001
Posts: 46
| Posted: 2009-03-04 18:40
I wouldn't mind a change to the Interdictors, but please keep them on the specialized ship. Being in control o such a ship really add much flavour to this game. Sitting in an Interdictor certainly means a great sacrifice, as they are (and shold always be) far away from doing any direct damage. Instead, their role is actually to be annoying to the enemy and giving an advantage to the faction using it. Every Interdictor means a loss of firepower, thus they must be used in a way to compensate it, which is not easy. The way of flying an Interdictor is a unique experience.
The idea of slowing down the jump drives is a good idea, but of course, there must also be some mechanism of preventing jumping IN. I played a while during the current open trial and experienced several dreads jumping right behind me. The old system with the 1000 gu bubble is fine in my opinion, but a clever change may really be worth to be considered.
To prevent jumping OUT, the delay would most likely do its job, giving the own fleet more time to finish off a damaged ship. The delay may well decrease with distance to 1000 or even 2000 gu. Such a gradient would avoid any argument about the optimal range, giving an opportunity to help missile ships as well as giving ships at medium distance to run away. The 1000 gu bubble always felt a bit strange... the task was to keep all enemies at a distance below 1000 at any time to prevent them fom slipping out.
Jumping IN may damage the jump drive according to the distance. A jump directly onto the poor Interdictor should cause a serious damage, like the emergency jump. The attacking ship would then be an easy picking for a fleet (if there is any), but maybe it would be worth sacrifying. Ships crossing the field may also get a damaged jump drive, depending on the duration and distance to the Interdictor, causing a nasty penalty to everyone getting too close or even letting them drop out of warp. Or maybe analoguous to the increased activation time, the remaining jump time could simply be decreased dramatially, even up to 100%.
Another thought to this distance falloff: it would be easy to determine the result of multiple interdictors close to each other. The effect could simply add up, causing a stronger protection in the intersecting area. I've actually never seen more than at most 2 Interdictors in a single fleet. This may still be interesting when building stationary interdictors.
Of course, the K'Luth interdictor shouldn't be able to cloak AND interdict at the same time. Interdictors are sopposed to be relatively easy targets, at least easy enough to scare them into cloak and to turn the device off.
Anyway, fast ships always had the chance to run away. Everything faster than a cruiser easily escapes in no time. Another factor against flying a dread, my favourite victims. 
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Strategery
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: December 07, 2002
Posts: 522
From: Straight Outta Boston!
| Posted: 2009-03-04 23:46
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On 2009-03-03 08:51, Carns wrote:
Since I joined DS, I have always been told to not go for the kill... be satisfied with doing the damage.
Any time I have pulled out an interdictor, usually because I hate being Dread pointjumped, I am told to put it away, because everyone leaves.
Most of your "reasons" have you fixing the wrong problem. Get rid of point jumping. Add a randomizer to the destination of a jump.
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If I were told to put a dictor away in the same way you claim, I'd laugh in every other players face and tell them to go read the Manual again and figure out the object of the game. If everyone on the opposing side left because i flew a dictor, i'd find 2 comrads to cap a system with me in half an hour. I play to win the game, and winning is controlling the Metaverse. If no one is willing to stop ICC/me from capping their planets then i'm all for that. We win, they lose.
Cheers to Meko by the way on his VERY large post on page 2 of this thread. He hits most of my points dead on. 
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On 2009-03-03 09:33, Delando wrote:
Most people hate dictors, I make it a rule to target em first when i see em.
The problem. It's not a Equalizer. It's almost always the Larger fleet that uses em.
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Fair Arguement. That is a common occurance. But like you said, don't like being in a dictor field, kill the dictor.
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This causes the smaller fleet's chance of surviving battle to go from difficlut to suicidal. Thus discourage battle.
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The smaller fleet is ALWAYS at a disadvantage, tell us something we don't already know. But if you play with a well devised plan/strategy, and of course decent numbers to counter your opponent, kill the dictor and survive to fight on.
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The good news: very few people are good at flying dictors. So unless u see someone who u know is a veteran flying one, kill the noob and take satifaction from it.
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And if your around that skilled veteran, just run. Your probably the next hunted on the food chain and nothing good is coming your way....
/me smiles
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On 2009-03-03 11:18, Faustus wrote:
We are considering a couple of changes to interdictors...
Change 1: Add a spin up time for jumping once you are aligned, around 1 second perhaps... however, if you are in a interdictor field, then it make take 10-30 seconds to jump depending on the number and level of interdictors.
Change 2: Remove ship based interdictors and keep planet based ones only.
Your thoughts and comments are welcome...
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My 2 cents:
Please don't remove ship based dictors. Any alterations to the old code would be far more acceptable than the 2nd option. Also, many people have suggested lowering the dictor ranges to anywhere from 600gu to a paltry 350gu. Thats rediculous in that a dictor would have to be virtually sitting on top of you to prevent an escape jump, or an incoming jump, whatever the dictors priority is at the moment.
Also, my final suggestion, and simply to fix a possible balance issue: k'luth piercer should not be able to cloak while an interdictor is running. ICC and UGTO cannot cloak while interdicting, and neither should k'luth. The cloak is meant to complement k'luth's hit and run style of play (by design), and interdicting is not part of the actual hit and run tactic. It's purpose is clearly defined FOR ALL FACTIONS, and should be kept as balanced as possible to not make interdictors overpowered. Yes, In my comments i speak only towards k'luth getting overpowered, but that would be the primary issue that i see occuring.
*Edited your three posts into one*
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2009-03-05 07:44 ]
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ICC Master Battle Strategist (ret.)
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-03-05 00:30
Like I said though, the main problem with dictors is that they're used to hunt down or else prevent the escape of ships in order to get a kill. They're used to prevent ships from jumping away, not from jumping in.
All dictors are are a frustrating way to get a kill. And I guarantee that's why most people want them in game now. It's not to stop being jumped so much as it is to stop whoever they're killing from jumping.
If that can somehow be fixed then I'll be all for dictors. But so long as they're used as an offensive weapon and not a defensive one I'd rather they stay out of the game.
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2009-03-05 01:44
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On 2009-03-05 00:30, MrSparkle wrote:
Like I said though, the main problem with dictors is that they're used to hunt down or else prevent the escape of ships in order to get a kill. They're used to prevent ships from jumping away, not from jumping in.
All dictors are are a frustrating way to get a kill. And I guarantee that's why most people want them in game now. It's not to stop being jumped so much as it is to stop whoever they're killing from jumping.
If that can somehow be fixed then I'll be all for dictors. But so long as they're used as an offensive weapon and not a defensive one I'd rather they stay out of the game.
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I just got a real funny idea...
What if dictors make it so that a JD cant be deactivated in its range? Meaning you always jump through the field and then it stops?
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-03-05 02:08
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On 2009-03-05 01:44, Sixkiller wrote:
I just got a real funny idea...
What if dictors make it so that a JD cant be deactivated in its range? Meaning you always jump through the field and then it stops?
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you mean they would jump, and then......overshoot the target?
I love it. Hilarious griefing by making your enemy ram into planets.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-03-05 04:45
Quote:
| Cheers to Meko by the way on his VERY large post on page 2 of this thread. He hits most of my points dead on.
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Thank u!!
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@ Mr Sparkle. the first line in your most recent post says "The problem with dictors..." and then you proceed to explain how they are used as a weapon.
Please explain to me how this is a problem. Honestly, the logic behind saying dictors holding people down so the fleet can kill them = problem completely escapes me. Edit: no pun intended.
im not gunna rag on you cause your opinion differes from mine, but i will ask you to explain in vivid detail Why its a problem. As you can read, on page 2 in my long post i explained where i stand.
Other Edit: Lol at the 'slippery dictor'
[ This Message was edited by: Meko on 2009-03-05 04:45 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-03-05 07:30
I like Jim's idea (one of them?):
Two devices: One that stops active jump drives (ie, incoming jumps), and one that stops jump drives from becoming active. Thus, a defensive and an offensive role.
Defensive dictor is 1000gu, instant on and off, medium power drain.
Offensive dictor is 500gu, 2-3 second powerup, instant off, high power drain.
Have them refitted like any device with the defensive dictor as default.
Maybe even a third device, the current (but fixed) for planets.
As for having it work for all factions: we've done that before. Its even more frustrating than the current ones.. but also would make them much less useful and therefore used. Its a real pain though.. more than the theory would imply. You need a real team player, direction following pilot.
Belated caveat: I stopped reading a page and a half ago due to time constraints.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-03-05 08:30
Quote:
| As for having it work for all factions: we've done that before. Its even more frustrating than the current ones.. but also would make them much less useful and therefore used. Its a real pain though.. more than the theory would imply. You need a real team player, direction following pilot.
Belated caveat: I stopped reading a page and a half ago due to time constraints.
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but also would make them much less useful and therefore used.
Then that pleases all sides right? I wont mind that cause we are a teamwork oriented fleet, and the people who dont like dictors will hardly notice them right? The one exception that id say is make planetary dictors affect hostiles only, but the ship mounted ones get everyone. good comprimise yeah?
I stopped reading a page and a half ago due to time constraints.
please tell me you read my response to you on page 2? =)
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-03-05 10:07
Yeah, I agree; Planets should work more or less as they do now (maybe with extended range).
And of course not. I ignore all your posts.
I skimmed it. Jim seemed to cover your basic points (that I could see in a skim) more succinctly. I'm sure it was a brilliant post, though. Once I get somewhere where:
1 there's a better net connection (I'm in Mongolia at the moment)
2 internet is cheaper
3 i'm not supposed to be working
I'd read it and maybe change my mind. But you're right that I was thinking of the dictor in a very limited way, but by your post I'd already realized that (or had it pointed out).
Also, reply to my email or I'll start really ignoring your posts.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-03-05 15:29
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@ Mr Sparkle. the first line in your most recent post says "The problem with dictors..." and then you proceed to explain how they are used as a weapon.
Please explain to me how this is a problem. Honestly, the logic behind saying dictors holding people down so the fleet can kill them = problem completely escapes me. Edit: no pun intended.
im not gunna rag on you cause your opinion differes from mine, but i will ask you to explain in vivid detail Why its a problem. As you can read, on page 2 in my long post i explained where i stand.
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It's because dictors are defensive not offensive. One of the main reasons many people want them working again is so they can get their precious kills. You want to kill that person that just jumped away? Track him and jump him. Can't do that in your big ships? Have a small ship track him that can run a scanner and use it's jumpdrive often, like a scout.
There is a very serious chance I stop playing again if dictors work like they used to. That's how much I don't like them. I never liked them.
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Target
Cadet
Joined: July 23, 2001
Posts: 46
| Posted: 2009-03-05 15:55
If you are afraid of an interdictor. Keep it at a comfortable distance.
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On 2009-03-05 15:29, MrSparkle wrote:
Can't do that in your big ships? Have a small ship [...]
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As far as I know, mostly the dread pilots were really annoyed by an interdictor. Small ships shouldn't have any problem.
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MekosPhone
Cadet
Joined: January 06, 2009
Posts: 10
| Posted: 2009-03-06 00:32
@Shig - sorry I didn't even see that email >.< when I'm not at work I'll look at it. I'll also give ya my real email
@Mr Sparkle:
Saying a weapon is defensive not offensive is kinds short sighted. I'm not gettin smart with ya either, so I'll explain. The entire idea of interdictors was spawned from the star wars universe, and the empire wielded it as a tool to stop people from escaping. so the very first dictor was an offensive one.
Now let's look at this from a real world standpoint. Right from the beginning of warfare our race has developed ways and technology to defeat the enemy. If nessesity is the mother of all invention, war is the father. That's a direct meko quote .
So how does that relate to ds? Well IMHO ds is pretty realistic - some physics and + some imagination. So it's not a stretch to assume that once jump drives were invented the millitaries (ugto) would have developed a way to prevent a jump to stop whoever from escaping (presumably smugglers + pirates and then later the icc). So saying they are defensive is incorrect, simply based on the above deductions.
But I'll say that once the tactical and strategic rammifications o that technology were realized it would be a fair bet that they would be employed as a defensive measure.
So I'll ask you another question MrSparkle; what's the difference between being caught by a dictor, as aposed to being tracked and killed. Both end the same.
I'd also like to point out that 2 free trials ago, dictors were active and it was the largest of the 3 recent free trials. There was more players, and more combat when there were dictors.
Anyways I'm on my phone right now so I'll end this post here
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