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ICC Assault Dreadnaught (with enhancements) |
Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
|  Posted: 2012-09-28 00:42
Quote:
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On 2012-09-28 00:36, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Can you guys test them WITHOUT enh?
Ships were balanced without enh factored in.
If a ship gets OP'ed because of enh, then it leaves us with several questions like:
- Shd enh really be that effective?
- Shd enh have drawbacks?
- Shd enh be nerfed?
- Or shd this be left as is, because enh are bought and paid for and the users should get the advantage?
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tested that earlier and got similar results, they just can't seem to let it go so oddly enough im coming up with a counter to my own ship 
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-09-28 00:44
I'm still not getting why any of you are testing ship balance using enhancements, it's a very well known fact that those can easily throw any kind of balance out the window. You might as well be pissing into the wind for all the good it's doing.
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Adapt or die.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-09-28 01:30
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On 2012-09-28 00:44, Talien wrote:
I'm still not getting why any of you are testing ship balance using enhancements, it's a very well known fact that those can easily throw any kind of balance out the window. You might as well be pissing into the wind for all the good it's doing.
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Exactly.
Beats the hell out of me why they would even bother.
But since we're already doing that, I wonder how skewed the effect would be if we tested a 48% weap enh AD vs a 48% def enh EAD. So you boost the "measly" damage that an AD does against a hardened EAD. Not forgetting that the EAD already does obscene damage without enh.
Let's see how that pans out?
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-09-28 02:21
Alright, so after some trials, and trying a few wacky ways of building/playing ships the way I do... we managed to find out that an EAD can, in fact, beat an AD in 1v1 combat. I won't give the enh list, build, or playstyle here, because lolno, but I will say:
- People haven't been enhancing the right things on the EAD, not even close.
- People haven't been using the right firing chains.
- People don't conserve energy well enough on EAD.
It's hard, but once I got down the energy conservation and correct firing chains, I was able to beat Brut in an enh AD with a decent amount of hull left and more then enough energy.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-09-28 02:26
I will second what Whiterin said and say that with a different ehs combo that I haven't really seen used before, with an ingenious firing setup, the EAD crushed my 48% def ehs Assault dread. 
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality *COM* on 2012-09-28 02:26 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-09-28 02:31
Guys, guys, guys. Your claims are as dodgy as his.
Come on! Spill the beans!
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... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-09-28 02:33
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On 2012-09-28 02:31, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Guys, guys, guys. Your claims are as dodgy as his.
Come on! Spill the beans!
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Like I said "lolno". Why would we tell the enemy how to beat us? That would just be silly... I am sure the staff can check logs to verify.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-09-28 06:30
They're correct.
It's what I use  .
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2012-09-28 07:28
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On 2012-09-28 02:33, Whiterin wrote:
Like I said "lolno". Why would we tell the enemy how to beat us? That would just be silly... I am sure the staff can check logs to verify.
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Hmm, I'll take a stab at it and say that proly a mix of weap multis and condensors, to maintain a large, stable dps that rivals that of the AD? Also avoiding point blank fire as the splash from an EAD is much more powerful when compared to an AD? Also consider that beams do less damage to shields as they take 15% less energy dmg?
Defence enhancements are much more effective on an AD because that means the AD has 48% more total shields to shunt into his front arc on top of 48% more on two plates of armor for max dps while retaining 48% extra armor for one arc each of its more powerful broadsides when compared to the EAD. Meanwhile the EAD will only have 48% extra of three plates and 48% of two plates each for its much weaker broadside. In conclusion: both sides using def enh just compounds the AD's defence advantage, solidifying the victory.
Proly no/few emp as in a duel between assault ships hulling an AD means that all of his shields are down, and thus you are more than half done with him. However, some lucky emp/flux shots might take out a generator, giving you a huge advantage.
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
| Posted: 2012-09-28 09:10
Quote:
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On 2012-09-27 14:21, Steveyk wrote:
Well im too lazy to make posts normally but anyway the fights were all at close range with standard then albative armour we are going to try ref armour next time we are both on. Would anyone like to suggest what would be a fair test? maybe 2 on 2 etc?
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Fair test:
2BD/1EAD/1BC/1GD + spam distress twice for ai
1CDread/1AD/3HC + spam distress twice for ai
maybe test with a ss too.
[ This Message was edited by: Mylith *CO* on 2012-09-28 09:10 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-09-28 09:22
I had 8 Advanced Weapon Condenser on AD; Omni had 8 Advanced Weapon Multiplexer on his AD. We both and only used Sabot rocket and IC to launch. We FFed and I lost when Omni were at 50% hull. He said I did not know how to direct shield... He hadn't directed shield until all the front shield vanished while I direct right when the front shield was below 80%.
Maybe I was bad at directing shield... However 8 AW Condenser supposed to provide higher DPS than 8 AWM. My calculation:
As DPS = Damage / Time,
DPS1 of 8 AWM = (100% + 48%) * D / T = 1.48 DPS;
DPS2 of 8 AWC = D / (100% - 48%) * T = 1.92 DPS;
So DPS2 / DPS1 = 1.92 / 1.48 = 1.23
We were hugging planet depot.
The point is, why reserve shield energy is better than use it at the beginning?
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-09-28 11:18
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On 2012-09-28 07:28, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Also avoiding point blank fire as the splash from an EAD is much more powerful when compared to an AD? Also consider that beams do less damage to shields as they take 15% less energy dmg? |
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I'd hope they were avoiding splash, as that video twoface posted had an EAD practically sitting ontop of an AD FFing itself to death with it's own torps and QST. If all his "tests" were like that, it fully explains why he was getting such unbelievable results, because I can say almost assuredly that EAD probably did as much damage to itself as the AD did to it.
Also, shields were totally reworked in the style of UGTO armor remember? Active have no resist, Reactive have energy resist but kinetic weakness, and Skirmish have kinetic resistance but energy weakness.
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Adapt or die.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2012-09-28 11:35
Quote:
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On 2012-09-28 09:22, chlorophyll wrote:
Maybe I was bad at directing shield... However 8 AW Condenser supposed to provide higher DPS than 8 AWM. My calculation:
As DPS = Damage / Time,
DPS1 of 8 AWM = (100% + 48%) * D / T = 1.48 DPS;
DPS2 of 8 AWC = D / (100% - 48%) * T = 1.92 DPS;
So DPS2 / DPS1 = 1.92 / 1.48 = 1.23
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actually,
DPS = [(100% + AWM bonus) * Damage] ÷ [Cooldown * Energy/(Energy recharge + AMCondensor bonus) ]
with +48% multiplexer bonus,
DPS = [(100% + 48%) * Damage] ÷ [Cooldown * 100%/100%]
= [148% * Damage] ÷ [Cooldown * 1]
= 148% DPS
with +48% condensor bonus
DPS = [100% * Damage] ÷ [Cooldown * { 100% / (100% + 48%) }]
= [ 100% * Damage ] / [Cooldown * 100/148]
= (148 * 100% * Damage) / (Cooldown * 100)
= 148% DPS
condensor makes weapons recharge at a higher energy recharge rate. it does not directly reduce the time required to recharge the weapon.
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Steveyk
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: November 25, 2008
Posts: 162
| Posted: 2012-09-28 13:08
Quote:
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On 2012-09-28 09:10, Mylith *CO* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-09-27 14:21, Steveyk wrote:
Well im too lazy to make posts normally but anyway the fights were all at close range with standard then albative armour we are going to try ref armour next time we are both on. Would anyone like to suggest what would be a fair test? maybe 2 on 2 etc?
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Fair test:
2BD/1EAD/1BC/1GD + spam distress twice for ai
1CDread/1AD/3HC + spam distress twice for ai
maybe test with a ss too.
[ This Message was edited by: Mylith *CO* on 2012-09-28 09:10 ]
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Steveyk
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: November 25, 2008
Posts: 162
| Posted: 2012-09-28 13:11
Quote:
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On 2012-09-28 09:10, Mylith *CO* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-09-27 14:21, Steveyk wrote:
Well im too lazy to make posts normally but anyway the fights were all at close range with standard then albative armour we are going to try ref armour next time we are both on. Would anyone like to suggest what would be a fair test? maybe 2 on 2 etc?
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Fair test:
2BD/1EAD/1BC/1GD + spam distress twice for ai
1CDread/1AD/3HC + spam distress twice for ai
maybe test with a ss too.
[ This Message was edited by: Mylith *CO* on 2012-09-28 09:10 ]
Ok can you get guys together for that and what rules would u think would suit? PM me or reply here after u have had a chance to think about it and we will see if we can be on at the same time with enough people to do it.
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