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ICC Assault Dreadnaught (with enhancements) |
Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
|  Posted: 2012-09-25 21:19
Throughout all of the history of DS the ICC AD has been better than the EAD, while the UGTO SS has been better than the ICC SS. I think it would only be fair if the ICC AD gets nerfed that the UGTO SS gets nerfed as well.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2012-09-25 21:29
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On 2012-09-24 21:46, CM7 wrote:
spawns a gunboat destroyer with 4x adv engine tuners and 4x adv manuvering jets and makes you eat your words.
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Beat me to it lol
Now seriously. Im willing to bet that 2 eads in the hands of two competant pilots from say, GTN, RSF, or even Wolf, that AD is dust.
ICC's weakness is shields.
If two ships hit 1 arc, you get to eat thru 4 shield arcs worth of damage before hull gets touched. Thats a lot of shield. If two pilots hit two arcs, then the most any one pilot will really be able to face is 50% of any sheild arc. If you let an AD shunt all of his shield energy to one face when you have two ships to hit him, you deserve to die.
To properly kill ICC dreads and stats, you go against the normal convention of "everyone hit the same arc". Against ICC, it is more efficient to have everyone hit a seperate arc.
Not saying there isnt a code issue. Just quesioning tactics since there is no battle report of this 2 eads running from a single AD incident.
Testing:
Testing should be done in a series of tests with the same ships.
First test: NO ENHANCEMENTS or mods (unless gadget testing)
Second test: mod as desired.
Third test; add enhancements.
I keep seeing people talking about what enhancements they used, but what are the base values that they are stacking on? If you dont do it in stages, how do you catch the issue? (I dont mean the code surfers who can look at the numbers and codes. I am saying this for testers)
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2012-09-25 22:06 ]
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-09-25 22:15
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On 2012-09-25 18:54, Mylith *CO* wrote:
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Let me get this right, So what you are saying is if me and you in modded AD/EAD point blank alpha'd each other the EAD is going to do more damage?
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exactly!
frob, can you post those facts here?
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UGTO Elite Assault Dread:
Power Generation per second: 2.68
Power Capacity: 179.8
Weapons:
14 Proton Torpedeo
Recharge Total Cost per: .9 Energy
Recharge Drain per: .14 Energy per second
Average DPS per: 1,084 (torpedeo strikes enemy directly)
DPS of Proton Battery: 14 * 1,185= 16,590 DPS
Energy Drain Per Second: 14 * -.14 = -1.96 EPS
4 QST
Recharge Total Cost per: 1.716 Energy
Recharge Drain Per: .52 Energy per second
Average DPS per: 2,713 (Torpedeo strikes enemy directly)
Dps of QST Battery: 4 * 2,713 = 10,852 DPS
Energy Drain Per Second: 4 * -.52 = -2.08 EPS
6 Heavy Chemical Laser
Recharge Total Cost per: 3.48 Energy
Recharge Drain per: .58 Energy per Second
Average DPS per: 3,700 DPS (Beam strikes at zero distance)
Average DPS per: ~733 DPS (Beam strikes at maximum distance)
DPS of HCL Battery: 6 * 3,700 = 22,200 DPS
Energy Drain Per Second: 6 * -.58 = -3.48 EPS
4 Chemical Laser
Recharge Total Cost per: .71 Energy
Recharge Drain per: .16 Energy per second
Average DPS per: ~1,661 DPS (Beam Strikes at zero distance)
Average DPS Per: ~375 DPS (Beam Strikes at maximum distance)
DPS of CL Battery: 4 * 1,661 = 6,644 DPS
Energy Drain Per Second: 4 * -.16 = -0.64 EPS
4 Flux Beam
Recharge Total Cost per: .888 Energy
Recharge Drain per: .18 Energy
Average DPS per: ~1,120 (Beam Strikes at zero distance)
DPS of Flux Battery: 4 * 1,120 = 4,480 DPS
Energy Drain Per Second: 4 * -.18 = -0.72 EPS
Total Stats:
Total Average DPS: 16,590 + 10,852 + 22,200 + 6,644 + 4,480 = 60,766 DPS
Total Energy Drain: 1.96 + 2.08 + 3.48 + 0.64 + .72= 8.88 EPS
Energy Delta per second : 2.68 - 8.88 = -6.2
Time to Drain: (179.8 / 6.2)- = 29 seconds
Ultra Theoretical Damage Possible: 60k * 32 = 1.9 million damage
ICC Assault Dread
Power Generation per Second: 3.04 Energy
Power Capacity: 188.8
12 Fusion Torpedeo
Recharge Total Cost per: .69 Energy
Recharge Drain Per: .12 Energy per second
Average DPS per: 941 DPS
DPS of Torpedeo Battery: 14 * 941 = 13,174 DPS
Energy Drain per Second: 14 * -.12 = -1.68 EPS
4 Ion Cannon
Recharge Total Cost per: .96 Energy
Recharge Drain per: .4 Energy per second
Average DPS per: 1,873 DPS
DPS of Ion Cannon Battery: 4 * 1,873 = 7,492 DPS
Energy Drain per Second: 4 * -.4 = -1.6 EPS
4 Heavy Chemical Laser
Recharge Total Cost per: 3.48 Energy
Recharge Drain per: .58 Energy per Second
Average DPS per: 3,700 DPS (Beam strikes at zero distance)
Average DPS per: ~733 DPS (Beam strikes at maximum distance)
DPS of HCL Battery: 4 * 3,700 = 14,800 DPS
Energy Drain Per Second: 4 * -.58 = -2.32 EPS
6 Chemical Laser
Recharge Total Cost per: .71 Energy
Recharge Drain per: .16 Energy per second
Average DPS per: ~1,661 DPS (Beam Strikes at zero distance)
Average DPS Per: ~375 DPS (Beam Strikes at maximum distance)
DPS of CL Battery: 6 * 1,661 = 9,966 DPS
Energy Drain Per Second: 6 * -.16 = -0.96 EPS
4 Active Shields
Recharge Drain per: .06 Energy per Second (Normal)
Recharge Drain per: .14 Energy Per Second (Recharging)
Energy Drain Per Second: 4 * -.14 = -0.56 EPS
Total Average DPS: 13,174 +7,492 + 14,800 + 9,966 = 45,432 DPS
Total Energy Drain: 1.68 + 1.6 + 2.32 + .96 + .56 = 7.12 EPS
Energy Delta per Second: 3.08 - 7.12 = -4.04 EPS
Time to Drain: (188.8 / -4.04) = 46.7 Seconds
Ultra Theoretical Damage Possible: 46.7 * 45k = 2.1 million
Edit:
This thread is starting to get a bit heated. Try to keep things civil please.
[ This Message was edited by: Fattierob on 2012-09-25 22:17 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-09-25 22:30
Should ships be designed taking enh into account?
Remember that enhancements multiply the characteristic of a ship by percentages.
So if two assault classes ships have (let's just take an arbitrary factor and figure) defence figures... say hit points... of 300,000HP and 330,000HP, it's gonna stack differently.
At first glance the 30,000 HP difference may not seem much, but once you put in 48% stacked def enh on it, 300,000 becomes 444,000, and 330,000 becomes 488,400. That's a diff of 44400 HP. And the difference gets bigger, the larger the base value.
Or should enhs, because they're being bought and are sources of income to the game, be bonuses to reward those who do pay for it and support the game?
Tricky tricky tricky.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-09-25 22:36
That battle you were talking about if remember correctly I was also there with my SS pounding away. Please remember to include all the facts before you start QQing and raging. 
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality *COM* on 2012-09-25 22:56 ]
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-09-25 22:54
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On 2012-09-25 22:36, Fatal Brutality *COM* wrote:
That battle you were talking about if remember correctly I was also there with my as pounding away. Please remember to include all the facts before you start QQing and raging.
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Please point out what you are talking about before you start QQing and raging please.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-09-25 23:11
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality *COM* on 2012-09-26 00:25 ]
did some testing and EAD lost every time. Keep in mind that I don't have a lot of time in the EAD and with 52% def it got very close. I ran out of energy with the AD @34% hull and I with 24% hull and got eaten. Not sure what the issue is though because in fleet battles (against luth and ugto) it seems very even to me (guess im biased apparently). take it as you will, but please to not issue another reflex 20% boost to one faction or a serious nerf without careful testing and balance. I don't think this game could stand to see another huge fail like that again. cheers! 
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-09-26 00:26
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On 2012-09-25 23:11, Fatal Brutality *COM* wrote:
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality *COM* on 2012-09-26 00:25 ]
did some testing and EAD lost every time. Keep in mind that I don't have a lot of time in the EAD and with 52% def it got very close. I ran out of energy with the AD @34% hull and I with 24% hull and got eaten. Not sure what the issue is though because in fleet battles (against luth and ugto) it seems very even to me (guess im biased apparently). take it as you will, but please to not issue another reflex 20% boost to one faction or a serious nerf without careful testing and balance. I don't think this game could stand to see another huge fail like that again. cheers!
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In short, would that mean that 2 EADs will eat up your AD?
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-09-26 00:27
21:02:46 [FS]Fatal Brutality *COM*: "did you wanna go 1v1?"
21:02:51 Havick86*: "butthead"
21:02:57 [FS]Fatal Brutality *COM*: "cause at close range I would eat you alive in an EAD"
21:03:05 [*RSM*]Two Face: "no, the AD will win"
21:03:36 [FS]Fatal Brutality *COM*: "nope... just learn to fly"
21:03:42 [*RSM*]Two Face: "rgr"
So me and brutality have just spent a little while in beta with him in his modded EAD, my modded AD, My AD won 3 out of 3 rounds, what more do i need to prove?
[ This Message was edited by: Two Face on 2012-09-26 00:43 ]
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-09-26 00:29
[quote]
On 2012-09-26 00:26, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
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In short, would that mean that 2 EADs will eat up your AD?
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if they hit the same arc I believe I could hull one of them, but I doubt I could kill one, even two of them. If they hit two different arcs though that's the end of it. its like two kluth dreads hitting you but worse. I wouldn't last very long at all. 
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality *COM* on 2012-09-26 00:35 ]
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-09-26 00:36
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On 2012-09-26 00:26, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
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On 2012-09-25 23:11, Fatal Brutality *COM* wrote:
[ This Message was edited by: Two Face on 2012-09-26 00:38 ]
did some testing and EAD lost every time. Keep in mind that I don't have a lot of time in the EAD and with 52% def it got very close. I ran out of energy with the AD @34% hull and I with 24% hull and got eaten. Not sure what the issue is though because in fleet battles (against luth and ugto) it seems very even to me (guess im biased apparently). take it as you will, but please to not issue another reflex 20% boost to one faction or a serious nerf without careful testing and balance. I don't think this game could stand to see another huge fail like that again. cheers!
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In short, would that mean that 2 EADs will eat up your AD?
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In the right hands yeah, am pretty crap when it comes to ICC ships, ill be the first to admit it. Me and Brutality tested a few different situation's/setups the only time i dropped below 50% hull was with a bad setup that ICC would never use, the other two duels we had i didnt drop below 80% hull.
This isnt a bad reflection on Brutality at all, but kind of proves my point that the EAD can not point blank out damage an AD.
Now its time for bed, 06:39am
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-09-26 00:44
In the End I think it comes down to what the EAD is meant to do. Is it meant to single handily kill anything at close range? or Used to do mass DPS once the target is hulled? Or an entirely different discription? Curious what the staff thinks the EAD's role is as I think two face has a different Idea on how it should preform. I'm not speaking for two face at all, just trying to figure out a solution to this "mess" as AD vs kluth is fine, and AD vs a Command dread, A kluth hive or an ugto SS make quick work of my AD even at close range, so I really don't see an easy fix for this (if there is indeed a problem).
Edit: Just my personal Feelings on the issue and they are probably misguided as usual.
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality *COM* on 2012-09-26 00:45 ]
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-09-26 00:54
I have some ideas on using the EAD that might make it more effective... but I have to rank up before I can test out the ideas. With the pure damage output of the EAD, I think it wouldn't take much tweaking to be able to beat an AD.
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Jumbat
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: August 26, 2012
Posts: 16
| Posted: 2012-09-26 01:40
Conclusion of all that is if a full moded ad nerfed gona stay in garage again like siphon before patch How many foull moded def ad you see in the game ? no more than 3 same fore eads all the other players well be doom ! Please make the test that you like with unmoded ships and make a new test if you like and stop complain wen you dy easy nobady live for ever
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2012-09-26 01:47
ICC better not get nerfed cause of this.
So the AD seemingly can easily take on and defeat an EAD without a problem. Thats what hes been getting at all day.
So?? Who cares?
What effect does this have on the game as a whole?
This game is about the fleet, its about the TEAMWORK. Not how ship A stacks against ship B. Its about working with your shipmates, reacting and counter-reacting to what your enemy is doing.
.
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