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[Beta] Dreadnaught layouts |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2011-05-12 12:23
So far all is good. The EAD seems a tad OP but not enough to cause alarm. The new Kluth missiles are a genuine threat and make the Ganglia a viable choice (finally!)
One great and probably unintended bonus of the new layouts and more powerful weapons is that depot planets are effectively nerfed. A support station at a 21 depot planet didn't take long at all to fall to 3 Kluth dreads.
That is a good thing. It's exactly what I always wanted depots to do: Repair quickly and effectively when not in combat, but not be able to keep up when under fire. It's crazy that currently a support station can camp a depot planet and tank the damage of multiple dreads. Now those days are numbered!
I'm also a fan of more damage, less armor, and this version so far is just that. It's a bit more like the old days now. I mean old days, like beta and shortly after.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-12 12:56
Just tested. Siph vs EAD
Siph: 8 x Adv Beam Multis
EAD: 8 x Adv Weap Multis + reflective armor
Siph needs 2 full alphas to hull from the rear
Needs 3 or 4 alphas to hull upfront
If the EAD fitted Def Upgrades, you would prob need to multiply that by 1.5x. :\
EAD needs 1 alpha only to hull the Siph from the front
EAD will hull + some change if it hits the siph from the rear
Siph's 6 ELF beams only drains 10 energy from the EAD.
Negligible energy gains. ELF is next to useless
EAD has 3 aux gens. It can sustain its alphas all the way into the 25th century.
Conclusion:
Siphon's aux gen is useless. Can't drain, and doesn't add much to combat endurance. In any case, a Siphon won't be able to last in battle long enough to need those ELFs anyway.
EAD is moderately OP. Too energy efficient for an assault dread. No real weaknesses except that rear blind spot. It could take on 2, maybe 3 Siphons and still come out on top.
Without going on about its armor, EAD needs to have higher energy drain.
Either the ELF needs a big big buff.... or the Siph should just drop enough ELFs for another Aux Gen.
In any case, Kluth dreads used to have 2 AHRs or Chits. I would request to put back the chit slot and make it unswappable.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-12 13:07 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-12 13:10
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 12:23, General Zod wrote:
So far all is good. The EAD seems a tad OP but not enough to cause alarm. The new Kluth missiles are a genuine threat and make the Ganglia a viable choice (finally!)
One great and probably unintended bonus of the new layouts and more powerful weapons is that depot planets are effectively nerfed. A support station at a 21 depot planet didn't take long at all to fall to 3 Kluth dreads.
That is a good thing. It's exactly what I always wanted depots to do: Repair quickly and effectively when not in combat, but not be able to keep up when under fire. It's crazy that currently a support station can camp a depot planet and tank the damage of multiple dreads. Now those days are numbered!
I'm also a fan of more damage, less armor, and this version so far is just that. It's a bit more like the old days now. I mean old days, like beta and shortly after.
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The new Shrouds are nice.
I tested it on another Kluth dessie. TK style. 
One salvo kills the dessie. 8 x Shroud missiles.
But against human dreads, it didn't really do much damage. It would prob be better if a swarm of Ganglias fired. Or if the Gangs were used while the enemy dreads were distracted and engaged in battle.
*******
I noticed one peculiarity with the Shroud missiles, or the Gang's launcher.
It seemed to fire in one direction only, relative to the whole Metaverse.
First time I fired, it came out the left side of my ass. When I fired again later, it came out my right side.
Then I rotated about and realized that it fired from one point relative to the metaverse.
I dunno if that was a bug, or just lag issues.
*******
Next... regarding the depots thing... It works both way.
Your 3 dreads may be able to hull the stations despite the depots, but with defending dreads, I seriously doubt those 3 dreads (in the real MV situation) would kill the station.... much less make it out of the dictor field alive.
Your beams have been upgraded, yes. So have the enemy's.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-12 13:13 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-12 13:24
Yep, everything's been upgraded (in the EAD's case, too much). The point with depots now is that they're not as OP as they used to be.
Were you in orbit when firing those missiles? I was reminded of the orbit bug today which was making them fire from strange directions.
Remember also that the Siphon is not the only choice vs EADs. Krills and Ganglias can do their damage from a distance while minimizing the damage they receive from EADs. It's not always about which ship has the best alpha strike.
I'm sad to hear about ELF. That's one of the things I didn't test, but I had a feeling they were useless. 10 energy drain? That's pitiful for even 1 ELF let alone 6. That has to be multipled tenfold before it's useful, since Siphons cannot sit that close to an enemy ship uncloaked while firing ELF after ELF. It has to be a whole lot of energy drained in one hit.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2011-05-12 14:25
BTW If it is not changed , elf beam recharge time is 22 seconds.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-12 15:45
I wonder... was your tests of elf done one time? or multiple?
what was your ping?
i too had simular non gains with elf beam.. however i only tested once (multiple times on one log in) and i discovered that i had high latency.
What i do know for sure, is that if you have 0.0 energy and fire elf beams, you still have 0.0 energy when their done firing.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2011-05-12 16:51
One shot from a single ELF Beam should drain precisely 4.0 energy from the target. I'm not sure if it transfers exactly that much back to the user, but I tested in Beta and they're certainly draining correctly. By comparison, a Heavy Chemical Laser consumes about 3.5 energy over the course of its cooldown.
However, in retrospect the EAD is a bit too forgiving on power use. When Beta next updates it will have one less Auxiliary Reactor and one more Flux Beam.
In the course of making that change I also found a minor bug, where one of its Heavy Lasers was replaced with a Proton Torpedo. So play-tests with it so far would've been off significantly.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-12 16:57
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 12:56, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Siph's 6 ELF beams only drains 10 energy from the EAD.
Negligible energy gains. ELF is next to useless
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Did you use the ELF before it's armor was down? I've found them to do next to nothing unless they're hitting hull.
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 16:51, Jim Starluck wrote:
In the course of making that change I also found a minor bug, where one of its Heavy Lasers was replaced with a Proton Torpedo. So play-tests with it so far would've been off significantly.
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So the EAD is supposed to have even MORE firepower than it currently does?
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-12 17:21
Quote:
| I'm curious, how does a mandi vs BD/CD work out? |
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The BD/CD will get destroyed.
Also, I did some testing, and the ganglia did extreme amounts of damage to my dread. A few salvos could hull me easily.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-12 17:49
Siphon has I think 8 torps, 2 SI, 6 ELF, 6 ruptors and 8 ass ruptors.
Mandible I think has 10 torps, 2 SI, 8 heavy cannon, 6 ruptors and 4 ass ruptors.
I might be slightly off on the counts but it's close to that. Siphon isn't really a beam ship but most of it's damage does come from ruptors.
EDIT: Also, 4.0 energy per ELF is not much at all. Each alpha drains 24 energy from the target? Are we actually sure they're draining that from the target? I'd say no, and I'd also say it's not enough of a drain for a ship that's not armored to stick around and continue firing (which is the only way ELF drain would be made significant). At the same time, it's been broken for years and I doubt many around today remember when it was actually useful for draining energy and making the target choose what weapons it fires more wisely.
[ This Message was edited by: General Zod on 2011-05-12 18:09 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-12 18:23
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 17:21, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
Quote:
| I'm curious, how does a mandi vs BD/CD work out? |
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The BD/CD will get destroyed.
Also, I did some testing, and the ganglia did extreme amounts of damage to my dread. A few salvos could hull me easily.
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Yet this doesn't make the mandi op does it? Or should we tone it down so the mandi and cd/bd are equal to the same effect as the proposed ead vs siphon?
On another note, much of the EAD's firepower comes from its 15 torps, which can be dodged by small ships as long as you try to dodge them and its not point blank.
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2011-05-12 19:23
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 12:56, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Just tested. Siph vs EAD
Siph: 8 x Adv Beam Multis
EAD: 8 x Adv Weap Multis + reflective armor
Siph needs 2 full alphas to hull from the rear
Needs 3 or 4 alphas to hull upfront
If the EAD fitted Def Upgrades, you would prob need to multiply that by 1.5x. :\
EAD needs 1 alpha only to hull the Siph from the front
EAD will hull + some change if it hits the siph from the rear
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Try it again having the EAD with 8 x Adv Beam Multis + refelctive armor. UGTO have been known to use that set up against k'luth. Given how strong their beams are and how close their torp splash damage is, that would certainly do more damage against K'luth, especially against a Siphon in battle.
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 12:56, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
In any case, Kluth dreads used to have 2 AHRs or Chits. I would request to put back the chit slot and make it unswappable.
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This please!
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2011-05-12 19:39
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 18:23, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 17:21, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
Quote:
| I'm curious, how does a mandi vs BD/CD work out? |
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The BD/CD will get destroyed.
Also, I did some testing, and the ganglia did extreme amounts of damage to my dread. A few salvos could hull me easily.
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Yet this doesn't make the mandi op does it? Or should we tone it down so the mandi and cd/bd are equal to the same effect as the proposed ead vs siphon?
On another note, much of the EAD's firepower comes from its 15 torps, which can be dodged by small ships as long as you try to dodge them and its not point blank.
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You sir , you are being devil's advocate. You are not helping at all.
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-12 19:53
you guys are trying to balance it for two factions only. you're forgetting about the other one.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-12 19:59
Well bring up your concerns about ICC dreads.
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