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[Beta] Dreadnaught layouts |
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
|  Posted: 2011-05-18 15:56
The Scale might have a bit of a rough time since it has to get so close, but I don't see the Scouts/Frigates or the Shell having much difficulty vs Combat Dreadnoughts.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-05-18 16:40
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On 2011-05-18 14:57, Incinarator |SoT| wrote:
Admittedly that would work pretty well in a one on one fight, but how well can (several) cruisers dodge shots from multiple dreads in this fashion? I sure some group of hardcore crusier fans could manage to pull that off with some difficulty, but how long will the energy on the cruisers last to continually dodge and fire at their target dread when under fire from so many?
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Well, Jim and I reckon that a pair of appropriate cruisers should have enough energy to at least kill a dreadnaught. Obviously, the actual answer is "it depends". Ship selection, tactics on both sides, situation...
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-18 18:05
I have a bit of spare time atm so I'll share my thoughts on scale and mandible, will review the other layouts in my previous post later.
Scale: More standoff ish with less beams, something quite new for kluth. (Old layouts usually shunned psi cannons with passion) It has superior fire power to HC and BC fore, but has the characteristic Kluth bad broadsides. Overall its fore cannons layout is similar to HC and BC, and it has more fore torps than either. I'd say optimal range would be 400-600, out of beam range but in torp/cannon range. 1 on 1 it can take on either the bc or hc with cloak, allowing it to stay on the enemy's rear. Will be good for taking on running enemies that have been scattered by larger Kluth ships and as an overall fire support platform.
Mandible: Following the path of the scale, it gets more cores, torps, and cannons instead of beams. This makes it again more standoffish, with a shorter optimal range than the Krill. Can be used in conjunction with the Krill, enemy ADs/EADs charging Krills will bite a flurry of torps. Can support the Krill in the Stand-Off ranges with 5 heavy cannons and 4 cores. Cannons will also assist siphons in breaking reflective armor, as they have no energy damage.
Overall we see Kluth getting more cannons and range, giving them their equivalent of a BC/BD/HC/CD.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2011-05-18 22:15
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Overall we see Kluth getting more cannons and range, giving them their equivalent of a BC/BD/HC/CD.
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FACE/PALM
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-18 23:01
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On 2011-05-18 18:05, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Overall we see Kluth getting more cannons and range, giving them their equivalent of a BC/BD/HC/CD.
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Well, it's either that, or make Kluth a pure assault faction. Which in turn makes all the other ships useless. So if that happens, then Kluth should only have one ship in each class. 
C'mon. We can't just make each faction follow a single guiding principle or philosophy.
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-05-18 23:04
Quote:
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On 2011-05-18 14:57, Incinarator |SoT| wrote:
Admittedly that would work pretty well in a one on one fight, but how well can (several) cruisers dodge shots from multiple dreads in this fashion? I sure some group of hardcore crusier fans could manage to pull that off with some difficulty, but how long will the energy on the cruisers last to continually dodge and fire at their target dread when under fire from so many?
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I know for a fact that it's possible, I've done it before. And keep in mind this is with the old HC, the one with NO firepower. We took 3 HCs vs 4 UGTO dreads (2 EADs, 2 BDs) and scored a kill. We only took one casualty. And my teammates had no idea how to fly the things either.
I kited them all for 20 minutes, while my allies lasted less than 5 (one took on an ead point blank despite me yelling at him to keep distance . The other got point jumped by a BD and got scared off) .
Stay just within firing range, stay moving, and only jump away to escape MASSIVE damage. If they point jump you at full speed, the jump ends at 500gu out. If they jump while stationary, they're close, but only close enough to alpha once. Slow to 13 gu and turn on def mode for a minute, then get moving again. You'll be low on energy, but able to tank any point jump alphas.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-19 01:29
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On 2011-05-18 22:15, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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Overall we see Kluth getting more cannons and range, giving them their equivalent of a BC/BD/HC/CD.
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FACE/PALM
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They are closer ranged than the BC/BD/HC/CD but employ longer range weapons than the previous layouts. (old layouts consisted mainly of beams and torps) The cannons and torps make them mid-close range.
They still are fore heavy and pack more of a punch than the BD/BC/HC/CD, but they do not require you to be in beam range to do heavy damage. (Mandi only has 2 AD compared to the 1 HCL of CD/BD I believe)
(In contrast we see the kluth assault ships rely more heavily on beams than before, effectively making them shorter ranged.)
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-19 03:22
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 01:29, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-18 22:15, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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Overall we see Kluth getting more cannons and range, giving them their equivalent of a BC/BD/HC/CD.
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FACE/PALM
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They are closer ranged than the BC/BD/HC/CD but employ longer range weapons than the previous layouts. (old layouts consisted mainly of beams and torps) The cannons and torps make them mid-close range.
They still are fore heavy and pack more of a punch than the BD/BC/HC/CD, but they do not require you to be in beam range to do heavy damage. (Mandi only has 2 AD compared to the 1 HCL of CD/BD I believe)
(In contrast we see the kluth assault ships rely more heavily on beams than before, effectively making them shorter ranged.)
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Let's look at the dreads' chances vs cruisers.
I can see ICC cruisers kill Uggie, and maybe Kluth, dreads. They can pelt the enemy dreads from range w rails and gauss.
Uggie cruisers will have a harder time due to falloff.
Kluth cruisers will have to close in for the kill and risk being killed themselves.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-19 03:24 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-19 05:25
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 03:22, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 01:29, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-18 22:15, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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Overall we see Kluth getting more cannons and range, giving them their equivalent of a BC/BD/HC/CD.
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FACE/PALM
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They are closer ranged than the BC/BD/HC/CD but employ longer range weapons than the previous layouts. (old layouts consisted mainly of beams and torps) The cannons and torps make them mid-close range.
They still are fore heavy and pack more of a punch than the BD/BC/HC/CD, but they do not require you to be in beam range to do heavy damage. (Mandi only has 2 AD compared to the 1 HCL of CD/BD I believe)
(In contrast we see the kluth assault ships rely more heavily on beams than before, effectively making them shorter ranged.)
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Let's look at the dreads' chances vs cruisers.
I can see ICC cruisers kill Uggie, and maybe Kluth, dreads. They can pelt the enemy dreads from range w rails and gauss.
Uggie cruisers will have a harder time due to falloff.
Kluth cruisers will have to close in for the kill and risk being killed themselves.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-19 03:24 ]
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ICC cruisers may be the best in a solo/harass way, but UGTO and Kluth cruisers are better for fire support, but in that case a dread would be optimal. But in cruiser vs cruiser the Scale can destroy the HC pretty well, much like claw in dessie vs dessie.
I would say stick to rear but with the new layouts thats harder, =(.
I'll keep experimenting on how to use these smaller, shorter ranged ships.
On a different note, I want to test some ships that have been affected by the beam buffs. (I'll assume flux beams/cannons got buffed too)
UGTO Defence Frigate is mainly normal beams and EW used for pd, but these beams may pack a punch now in a Frig vs Frig battle.
Kluth Drainer might be viable now in dessie vs dessie.
UGTO Assault Dessie got buffs from both the beam and torp departments.
Escort/Pickett destroyers will have energy problems while attacking, but now might have considerable short term firepower.
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-05-19 06:53
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On 2011-05-19 05:25, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
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ICC cruisers may be the best in a solo/harass way, but UGTO and Kluth cruisers are better for fire support, but in that case a dread would be optimal. But in cruiser vs cruiser the Scale can destroy the HC pretty well, much like claw in dessie vs dessie.
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ICC has always had the better smaller ships because of shield rotation and ICC's increased maneuverability
Anyway back to the point.
Me loser, and tony tested out shield and armor strength. General damage to shields and armor of ICC AD by EAD and Siphon was. QST- 7% shields, 5% armor, SI (hard cause of the random affect) Shield average of 8%, Armor average of 7%, Photon Torp- Shields 6%, armor 5%, AM torp- shields 8% armor 7%. And not on purpose Loser fired on me while i was combating a BD, He completly obliterated 3 arcs of shields and 50% of the armor under them (left, fore, and right). So if he had been out to kill me 2 to about 2.5 alphas would have done it
[ This Message was edited by: Cmdr Zod on 2011-05-19 06:55 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-19 06:55
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 06:53, Cmdr Zod wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 05:25, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
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ICC cruisers may be the best in a solo/harass way, but UGTO and Kluth cruisers are better for fire support, but in that case a dread would be optimal. But in cruiser vs cruiser the Scale can destroy the HC pretty well, much like claw in dessie vs dessie.
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ICC has always had the better smaller ships because of shield rotation and ICC's increased maneuverability
Anyway back to the point.
[/quote]
Fire support meaning smacking the enemy up close while they are focused on your dreads and stations, but in that case a dread would be better than a cruiser.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-19 11:52
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 05:25, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
ICC cruisers may be the best in a solo/harass way, but UGTO and Kluth cruisers are better for fire support, but in that case a dread would be optimal. But in cruiser vs cruiser the Scale can destroy the HC pretty well, much like claw in dessie vs dessie.
I would say stick to rear but with the new layouts thats harder, =(.
I'll keep experimenting on how to use these smaller, shorter ranged ships.
On a different note, I want to test some ships that have been affected by the beam buffs. (I'll assume flux beams/cannons got buffed too)
UGTO Defence Frigate is mainly normal beams and EW used for pd, but these beams may pack a punch now in a Frig vs Frig battle.
Kluth Drainer might be viable now in dessie vs dessie.
UGTO Assault Dessie got buffs from both the beam and torp departments.
Escort/Pickett destroyers will have energy problems while attacking, but now might have considerable short term firepower.
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After the beam buff, the Uggie Assault Dess and Cruiser are now pretty lethal when put up against their counterparts, especially up close.
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2011-05-19 12:56
All in all ships are much more deadly now than before. There are going to be lots of "Boom Booms" when the update goes live.
It's not going to be about single ship defenses anymore. We will need interdictors now, not just to trap ships to kill them (with the massive damage output coming there is no need really) but rather to defend yourselves from Alpha attacks and massive torpedo/beam volleys from up close. Kluth still have cloak advantage, which means scouts will be that much more important now....
I see combat becoming much more tactical, or risk losing lots of ships in the proccess. I think This update will require a new way of playing DS than most players are used to.
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Alcedo
Chief Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: June 03, 2010
Posts: 136
| Posted: 2011-05-19 13:57
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 11:52, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
After the beam buff, the Uggie Assault Dess and Cruiser are now pretty lethal when put up against their counterparts, especially up close.
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Which Cruiser do you mean?
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IANF
2nd Rear Admiral
Joined: June 19, 2010
Posts: 30
| Posted: 2011-05-19 14:24
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 12:56, Krim {C?} wrote:
All in all ships are much more deadly now than before. There are going to be lots of "Boom Booms" when the update goes live.
It's not going to be about single ship defenses anymore. We will need interdictors now, not just to trap ships to kill them (with the massive damage output coming there is no need really) but rather to defend yourselves from Alpha attacks and massive torpedo/beam volleys from up close. Kluth still have cloak advantage, which means scouts will be that much more important now....
I see combat becoming much more tactical, or risk losing lots of ships in the proccess. I think This update will require a new way of playing DS than most players are used to.
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this is a very good point. i think the game would get more hits if it were more tactical. i like these games because they require soem tactics and it isn't just the bigger ship wins kind of deal here
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