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[Beta] Dreadnaught layouts |
Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
|  Posted: 2011-05-15 18:03
I think its funny how u all come up with conclusions about a ship when doing duels.
Lets be realistic, in mv with 10 ships on both faction, using slow dreads/station it will be alot of point jump space combat, and when thats goin on, its always nice to have alot of fire power and energy.
Regards to testing with AD, I always thougth that ship should win front vs front at standstill, purley because they can rotate shields. And to my supprise the AD even used Defence Mode, wich i belived wasnt supposed to be used in combat.
And it seems to me that someone wants luth to be more like ugto aswell, id rather see less armor and way more speed and agility. But dread are slow and in curent state combat, luth ships are acting ugtoish. And it works.
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-15 19:56
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1. CD can take on the EAD. There's a secret, very special tactic closely guarded by a select few. I'ma share it with you, keep this very secret and don't tell others. Dictor Cruiser. Unfortunatly kluth can cloak and get close however.
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You mean CD + dictor can take on the EAD then.
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2. In release, what's the biggest fear of 1-3 EADs? A dictor and a heavy cruiser. The same should be said for the AD, but Ions travel very, very fast and pcannons do very little damage at range, and any damage is negated by shield rotation. The other tactic vs a lone AD is to try to outmaneuver, and the new layout will put a big "DENIED" stamp on any small ship and/or BD orbiting to the sides of an AD. In turn it is weaker vs other assault dreads when used in a slugger fashion.
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You seriously don't expect for a ship to try to orbit an AD at close range do you?
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3. I am totally cereal on trading broadsides with an AD vs EAD. EAD has horribad side arcs, the AD even has 2 more cores. No offense, but by not even trying to trade broadsides you basically negated the advantage the AD has over the EAD. It may not work without speed, it is a possible tactic.
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You can't force him to go broadsides with you, he can just face you while you put your lesser damaging side on him.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-15 22:55
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On 2011-05-15 17:28, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
@Zod
The Krill does seem fit to kill EADs, 8 heavy cannons all kinetic must hurt vs reflective. I said ganglia because at range you negate almost all damage, and if you are low on energy you should have enough range to cloak and slow down without him being able to blind fire you.
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I plan on using both, depending on my mood at the time. Ganglia has much greater energy issues than the Krill and does have a minimum firing range for it's main weapons, and a particular problem Kluth have is getting in the way of it's ranged ships. They do need to work on their situational awareness and not just go charging at an enemy when it could mess up the line of sight of ships behind them.
I am concerned that the Ganglia will be awarding me a whole mess of friendly fire points 
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-16 00:54
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On 2011-05-15 19:56, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
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1. CD can take on the EAD. There's a secret, very special tactic closely guarded by a select few. I'ma share it with you, keep this very secret and don't tell others. Dictor Cruiser. Unfortunatly kluth can cloak and get close however.
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You mean CD + dictor can take on the EAD then.
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2. In release, what's the biggest fear of 1-3 EADs? A dictor and a heavy cruiser. The same should be said for the AD, but Ions travel very, very fast and pcannons do very little damage at range, and any damage is negated by shield rotation. The other tactic vs a lone AD is to try to outmaneuver, and the new layout will put a big "DENIED" stamp on any small ship and/or BD orbiting to the sides of an AD. In turn it is weaker vs other assault dreads when used in a slugger fashion.
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You seriously don't expect for a ship to try to orbit an AD at close range do you?
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3. I am totally cereal on trading broadsides with an AD vs EAD. EAD has horribad side arcs, the AD even has 2 more cores. No offense, but by not even trying to trade broadsides you basically negated the advantage the AD has over the EAD. It may not work without speed, it is a possible tactic.
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You can't force him to go broadsides with you, he can just face you while you put your lesser damaging side on him.
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1. Yes, I do mean dictor + CD can beat EAD. Got a problem with a team based game? ICC are long ranged. Dictor is a team based ship that can help maintain range. Should we use the dictor to support the long ranged ships maintain range?
2. I didn't know Ion cannons were short ranged and traveled slowly. I mean, they have a hard time hitting cruisers at 600-800 gu, right? I mean UGTO small ships can just orbit at their max cannon range and deal significant damage. (Hint: Pcannons have significant falloff)
3. That's why I recommended speed enh to be able to orbit him faster than he turns, the EAD has a downside to all of its armor, it turns slowly.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-16 01:35
I thought of circling and making use of the side coverage during the initial tests yesterday but it didn't work out so well when I tried it. The issues with that are the faster you're moving the wider your turning circle is, making it easier for the ship you're circling around to keep it's nose pointed at you, and there's the increased energy drain from moving while firing.
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Adapt or die.
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-05-16 02:37
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On 2011-05-16 00:54, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
...
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On 2011-05-16 01:35, Talien wrote:
I thought of circling and making use of the side coverage during the initial tests yesterday but it didn't work out so well when I tried it. The issues with that are the faster you're moving the wider your turning circle is, making it easier for the ship you're circling around to keep it's nose pointed at you, and there's the increased energy drain from moving while firing.
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This. Energy shortage and the fact, you can turn much faster close to 0 speed than at max. It's hard to circle around a dread with a cruiser, now imagine a dread trying to do that.
Makkar is certainly a bad choice for an assault ship, better give it to a combat dread or even better - a combat destroyer and stick to def upgrades or weapon multiplexers.
A side note: "When a dictor comes into play, remove any non-K'Luth enemy players from game."
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-16 02:41 ]
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ICC in a nutshell
UGTO in a nutshell
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-16 02:59
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On 2011-05-16 01:35, Talien wrote:
I thought of circling and making use of the side coverage during the initial tests yesterday but it didn't work out so well when I tried it. The issues with that are the faster you're moving the wider your turning circle is, making it easier for the ship you're circling around to keep it's nose pointed at you, and there's the increased energy drain from moving while firing.
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Hmm, Proly the AD is heavier with new layout, might have to check on that. If that is the case where the EAD is maneuverable enough to match the AD then the AD will have to find a different tactic. If you can catch him by suprise and maintain broadside vs broadside long enough to hull him then it was worth it, but that might be hard with dual layers of armor. I'll need to test this.
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-05-16 04:37
Looking a few pages back:
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On 2011-05-14 20:35, Talien wrote:
4 tests with EAD vs AD. All ships stock, no enh, standard armor on EAD.
Test 1: EAD (me) vs AD (Bardiche), started at 800 GU range.
Result: AD won, barely. Defense mode was used, around 10% hull remaining, 0% shields, 0% armor.
Test 2: EAD (Bardiche) vs AD (me), started at 800 GU range.
Result: AD barely won. Defense mode was used, 5% hull remaining, 0% shields, 0% armor.
Test 3: EAD (Bardiche) vs AD (me) started at 500 GU range.
Result: EAD won with around 30% hull and 2 arcs at 90% armor.
Test 4: 2 EAD (Bardiche+Leviathan) vs 2 AD (Jim Starluck+The Fridge), started at 500 GU range.
Result: EADs won with 30% hull and 40% armor on one, 80% hull and 60% armor on the other.
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It looks like the AD will have to follow a new "very slow close in while firing-endure enemy long range fire-finish up close" tactic in order to weaken the target before taking it out up close in order to win. I just wonder how it will work against special armor and K'Luth.
With the new close range damage power assault class dreads possess fights will last much shorter, actual tanking damage will be close to nonexistant and it makes me question the combat endurance and effectiveness of light ships. Looks like once agan ICC will be the only faction that will be able to make at least some use of them.
From my pov, the firepower was pushed up too much.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-16 04:41 ]
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ICC in a nutshell
UGTO in a nutshell
\"I'M HEAVY METAL \\m/>_<\\m/ !!\"
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2011-05-16 05:56
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On 2011-05-15 14:28, BackSlash wrote:
ICC do less damage up to about 150-200 gu, at which point all their weapons do more damage.
You were fighting a ship which had more emphasis on beams than most ships, at a range wherein it was doing more damage.
All you're doing is showing us that you gave one ship an advantage, and that ship came out ahead.
As was stated above, in the real combat scenario, the AD came out ahead. We aren't in the practice of taking results from scenario's that have no bearing on the game.
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But the typical engagement is at 200gu. Saying the AD is better at range means squat when there is no range without a indictor present, which automatically cripples ICC firepower.
Uggies can mostly get away without having to use one and kluth don't need
em.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2011-05-16 05:56 ]
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-16 16:03
Loving the Siege dread. It got buffed all the way around. defence, offence, bombing, energy. An awsome tool.
One question. What do you think of removing one aux generator in faver of one more ew slot?
ive noticed ships of 1.67 have FAR too much energy.
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
| Posted: 2011-05-16 16:24
Can we possibly condense this thread down to the relevant and proper comments about beta layouts.
To include only what people find as a problem or error and GM comments made in response? I want to take part in testing but i'm not fond of reading 17 pages of possibly useful information prior to this? A noticeboard would be nice.
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-16 16:37
Quote:
| 1. Yes, I do mean dictor + CD can beat EAD. Got a problem with a team based game? ICC are long ranged. Dictor is a team based ship that can help maintain range. Should we use the dictor to support the long ranged ships maintain range? |
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sigh, thats a two v one then. teamwork is great, but don't make me believe you were actually referring to a one v one situation.
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-16 16:37
doublepost delte me
[ This Message was edited by: darksmaster923 (3IC) on 2011-05-16 16:38 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-16 19:12
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On 2011-05-16 16:37, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
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| 1. Yes, I do mean dictor + CD can beat EAD. Got a problem with a team based game? ICC are long ranged. Dictor is a team based ship that can help maintain range. Should we use the dictor to support the long ranged ships maintain range? |
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sigh, thats a two v one then. teamwork is great, but don't make me believe you were actually referring to a one v one situation.
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Okay how about 2 CDs and 1 dictor taking out 5 EADs, or forcing them away?
The best the EADs could do is try to get a surround with large jumps, but the CD and Dictor can easily escape said surround with jumps of their own.
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2011-05-17 01:27
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On 2011-05-16 19:12, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
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On 2011-05-16 16:37, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
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| 1. Yes, I do mean dictor + CD can beat EAD. Got a problem with a team based game? ICC are long ranged. Dictor is a team based ship that can help maintain range. Should we use the dictor to support the long ranged ships maintain range? |
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sigh, thats a two v one then. teamwork is great, but don't make me believe you were actually referring to a one v one situation.
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Okay how about 2 CDs and 1 dictor taking out 5 EADs, or forcing them away?
The best the EADs could do is try to get a surround with large jumps, but the CD and Dictor can easily escape said surround with jumps of their own.
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How about this. 5 EADs and then one switches out to get a dictor, because when one side has a dictor, you'd think the other side would be smart enough have one too. Unless you're giving us a hint on how UGTO is. 
5 EADs become 4 with a dictor.
Now what?
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