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[Beta] Dreadnaught layouts |
SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
|  Posted: 2011-05-17 05:54
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On 2011-05-17 01:27, Azure Prower wrote:
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On 2011-05-16 19:12, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
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On 2011-05-16 16:37, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
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| 1. Yes, I do mean dictor + CD can beat EAD. Got a problem with a team based game? ICC are long ranged. Dictor is a team based ship that can help maintain range. Should we use the dictor to support the long ranged ships maintain range? |
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sigh, thats a two v one then. teamwork is great, but don't make me believe you were actually referring to a one v one situation.
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Okay how about 2 CDs and 1 dictor taking out 5 EADs, or forcing them away?
The best the EADs could do is try to get a surround with large jumps, but the CD and Dictor can easily escape said surround with jumps of their own.
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How about this. 5 EADs and then one switches out to get a dictor, because when one side has a dictor, you'd think the other side would be smart enough have one too. Unless you're giving us a hint on how UGTO is. 
5 EADs become 4 with a dictor.
Now what?
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Then one faction with superior numbers matched/countered your tactic, and deserves to win.
EDIT: For more detail:
Since one person switched out we can assume you technically won the first engagement.
We can keep putting forth new strategies, and those strategies will almost always be out played somehow. Just get creative.
Example: one combat dread can switch to a combat destroyer which can keep the dictor(UGTO) at bay while the ICC Combat Dread and Dictor escape. Rails should hit the dictor at 600 gu, safe from EADs. UGTO dictor retreats and the ole process of kiting resumes. EADs can't point jump the combat destroyer because the ICC dictor is covering that with 400 gu dictor space at minimum.
I'm pretty sure someone with a creative mind can trump the strategy I proposed, but thats good. It gets people thinking how to beat other strategies. The only problem is it's often hard to convince people to execute strategies, especially ones that require large numbers.
[ This Message was edited by: SpaceAdmiral on 2011-05-17 06:06 ]
EDIT#2:
On another note, I want some opinions on a few ships:
UGTO Carrier Dread
Mandible
Scale
Parasite
UGTO Command Dread
Border Cruiser
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2011-05-17 07:55
You are kind of dodging the issue that in a fair one on one fight. The EAD will win nearly every time against any dread or force them to jump away/cloak.
Granted that in the MV, there is no fair fight. Meaning UGTO will have the edge. More bang for your numbers sort of deal when the UGTO rolls out a fleet of EADs to conquer the MV.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-17 11:35
The new Scale is quite good. It's a bit tricky to use especially vs ICC, but it's almost impossible to blindfire even with pinging so chances of escaping even when jumped by several ships including an Interdictor are rather good.
Firepower is easily comparable, or even superior to, the Heavy/Battle Cruisers.
Border Cruiser is.....interesting. It's almost as maneuverable as a Destroyer since it has no armor to weigh it down but it does have energy issues since it has 8 shield generators, it's very hard to keep any sort of speed while firing and using ECM/ECCM.
It has horrid endurance in close combat because shields are so easily taken out, it absolutely has to keep range to survive.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-17 11:45
*moved to proper post see cruiser layouts.*
**nvm the cruiser beta discussion has been locked.......**
BC is a beafy recon ship that can cloak. It has enough defence and offence to hold its own untill the fleet arives. Also has 4 cargo slots for pirate runs under heavy ecm.
A pirates ship for sure, And your definatly going to see me in it capping EADs
As your going to have shields off to be sneaky anyway, recoment replaceing at lest 4 of them to active.
as it does have all shields, it also has huge energy problems. Advanced tatics can null this though.
overall its the most flexible ship icc has as far as defence goes. I love it, and wish more of our ships folowed this design. (since sheilds are obviously better than armor)
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*XO* on 2011-05-17 11:53 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-17 18:34
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On 2011-05-17 07:55, Azure Prower wrote:
You are kind of dodging the issue that in a fair one on one fight. The EAD will win nearly every time against any dread or force them to jump away/cloak.
Granted that in the MV, there is no fair fight. Meaning UGTO will have the edge. More bang for your numbers sort of deal when the UGTO rolls out a fleet of EADs to conquer the MV.
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If we wanted a 1 on 1 fight I would get a ship with only a jump drive, 1 IE drive, and max HCLs. Then I would point jump you and kill you before you can jump away.
We test in real combat situations, not 1 on 1 fights which rarely happen.
On your point though:
A heavy cruiser can force the EAD to jump or die. It also has a faster JD to escape enemy point jumps. The same could be said about the combat dread with speed, but it would vary depending on how close the JD cooldowns are(if both jds recharge at the same time the CD can avoid most point jumps, if there is a delay in between the EAD can get in some hits).
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Shifcane
Grand Admiral
Anarchy's End
Joined: July 12, 2005
Posts: 15
| Posted: 2011-05-17 19:13
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On 2011-05-17 18:34, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
If we wanted a 1 on 1 fight I would get a ship with only a jump drive, 1 IE drive, and max HCLs. Then I would point jump you and kill you before you can jump away.
We test in real combat situations, not 1 on 1 fights which rarely happen.
On your point though:
A heavy cruiser can force the EAD to jump or die. It also has a faster JD to escape enemy point jumps. The same could be said about the combat dread with speed, but it would vary depending on how close the JD cooldowns are(if both jds recharge at the same time the CD can avoid most point jumps, if there is a delay in between the EAD can get in some hits).
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Again missing the point.
lets put it this way:
HC against a BC = Fair fight [same class of ship]
CD against BD = Fair fight [same class of ship]
Line station again Battle Station = [somewhat fair fight as they are meant to be ranged combat support]
AD against EAD = Not so fair fight [same class of ship] Assault class ship is mean to be up close and personal.
Like you said so many scenarios and so many outcomes.
but ship for ship is where balance comes. if we are unable to balance them then the advantage can wreck the game.
Remember the patch back in .484 where ICC AD could take on 3 EAD's cause shields were too uber? I do was one of the main wreaking points of the game. Making the EAD in the same scene will do more harm then good.
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On 2011-05-15 14:28, BackSlash wrote:
As was stated above, in the real combat scenario, the AD came out ahead. We aren't in the practice of taking results from scenario's that have no bearing on the game.
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This is a wrong analysis of the outcomes.
Defence mode was used in all of the tests. Defence mode is not meant to be used in combat. Or is that a new thing now? and that is from the start.
Now I do want to see how this weekend turnout is and see how a fleet of ships work out.
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2011-05-17 23:29
Are core weapons destined to become energy gulping machineguns? I suppose I can see how the Krill would be nerfed by this, but this is going to be a nightmare for anyone still trying to fly small ships if their prey just sits still and lobs shots with some skill because it will be a nightmare to dodge, even with their huge energy drain.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-05-18 05:29
Core weapons are being devised as a higher grade of cannons. They recharge faster, but do less damage and take more net energy. This puts them closer to a cannon weapon (medium-long range, medium damage, fast recharge)
Think of them as glorified cannons, instead of high-speed torpedoes, with only 1-2 projectiles and more damage, and you'll do fine.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-18 06:19
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On 2011-05-17 23:29, Incinarator |SoT| wrote:
Are core weapons destined to become energy gulping machineguns? I suppose I can see how the Krill would be nerfed by this, but this is going to be a nightmare for anyone still trying to fly small ships if their prey just sits still and lobs shots with some skill because it will be a nightmare to dodge, even with their huge energy drain.
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Well as long as ALL core weaps (not just the SI) are affected across the board, then it's not an issue.
IMO, they should increase the damage by 25% and raise energy usage by 50%.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-05-18 08:14
The Krill has 2 full arc beams, 2 fore arc beams and 2 fore/left arc beams.
Some dev might want to do something about its naked right arc.
Also, the Krill can focus a lot of damage on its broadsides, so maybe some of its projectiles should be fore arc only to give more of an advantage to ships trying to flank it.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-18 13:09
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On 2011-05-18 08:14, Brahmastra wrote:
The Krill has 2 full arc beams, 2 fore arc beams and 2 fore/left arc beams.
Some dev might want to do something about its naked right arc.
Also, the Krill can focus a lot of damage on its broadsides, so maybe some of its projectiles should be fore arc only to give more of an advantage to ships trying to flank it.
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The fore/left beams may be a mistake. Probably meant to be fore/left/right.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-05-18 13:14
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On 2011-05-17 23:29, Incinarator |SoT| wrote:
... a nightmare for anyone still trying to fly small ships if their prey just sits still and lobs shots with some skill because it will be a nightmare to dodge, even with their huge energy drain.
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Actually, having done a little bit of testing in beta, the range at which you can easily dodge enemy core weapons with a cruiser is about the same range at which you can fire torpedoes, which means that with a bit of skill you can pummel enemy deadnaughts without taking much damage in return.
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2011-05-18 14:57
Admittedly that would work pretty well in a one on one fight, but how well can (several) cruisers dodge shots from multiple dreads in this fashion? I sure some group of hardcore crusier fans could manage to pull that off with some difficulty, but how long will the energy on the cruisers last to continually dodge and fire at their target dread when under fire from so many?
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-18 15:29
With the old layouts in MV I was able to engage 4-5 BD/EAD at a time with my HC and do rather well, I don't see it being THAT much more difficult with the new layouts. I guess that gives me something to test on the 22nd.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-18 15:31
Kluth and UGTO small ships gonna suck against dreads now... Particularly against the Cdread. That thing has no weakness.
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